[News] Treliving named Leafs GM

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I had forgotten some other names like Glencross and Hudler that he moved out too that would have been considered "core" guys at the time.

Personally I think it all comes down to the lifecycle of building a team. Most GMs move out players early in the building process (mostly moving guys they didn't bring in), and then try to build a team up from there.

I don't think Treliving is uncommon in that perspective and wouldn't say he didn't make a bold move because of that.

What players did Sakic bring in or move on from in Colorado that didn't ask for a trade?

Same with Tampa when they were building?

The goal is to improve the team without subtracting core pieces for most GMs.

I see both Hudler and Glencross as examples of trading guys who were on their way out.

You can certainly define "bold' how you want, I don't have a great definition. But IMO I think he relied too much on the shortcut and wanting to add without taking away. The Lightning have traded guys like McDonaugh and Johnson. Maybe there are stories there, I don't know.

But I feel like Treliving was a little too much in love with his own players.

As for the bolded, I would remove the last part of your statement. The goal is to improve the team, which may or may not entail changing core pieces.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Wonder what has changed that Dino7c is now the one doubting Treliving...

100 point team...so I said this before last season?

we digging up year old plus posts? because I bet 90% of Leaf fans said Dubas was better than Tre until two weeks ago.

anyway that is true...I am not saying Brad is terrible, I have said most of what he has done is pretty average. You disagree.
The only point I am arguing is bold moves with core players...he didn't do that

As for the Leafs they are kinda stuck...you really think he is trading core players and will be allowed to do so

we can bump this when they run back basically the same team

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Even with a trade request (which I don't think was actually made) it was a bold move, as they say. Most pundits figured he lost it because "best player traded" and all.

As someone above said - any time a top player is traded there's some sort of pressure involved - from the player, from contract, from the cap and other players needs, etc. I'm hard pressed to think of a counter example.

FLA traded Huberdeau and Weegar, I guess because they valued what was coming back in their direction. Isn't hat kind of what we are talking about? Vegas gave up tons for Eichel.

I don't want to argue over "bold". I would just say Treliving made a lot of very similar moves. Picks for players (which is not too different than signing UFA's), and trades of guys who didn't want to be here.

In the Huberdeau example, would Treliving have traded Gaudreau a year ago for a young player?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

100 point team...so I said this before last season?

we digging up year old plus posts? because I bet 90% of Leaf fans said Dubas was better than Tre until two weeks ago.

anyway that is true...I am not saying Brad is terrible, I have said most of what he has done is pretty average. You disagree.
The only point I am arguing is bold moves with core players...he didn't do that

As for the Leafs they are kinda stuck...you really think he is trading core players and will be allowed to do so

we can bump this when they run back basically the same team

I’ll definitely remember this. I’m not saying you’re wrong but you seem pretty convinced you’re right for one reason or another.

Whether they trade a course 4 guy or not wouldn’t be too surprising to me.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I’m not sure I’ve seen this. Where did that come from?

Every reliable source I’ve heard spoke about how Dubas wanted more $ and autonomy.

Regarding the bold moves; a first and two seconds for either Hamilton or Hamonic wasn’t bold? SuperMatt pointed out several bold moves.

holy #### dude READING is your friend

player transactions moving out core players for other players...I said he made bold moves with draft picks. Not afraid to make bold moves with core players is what I think is false.

Dubas said publicly he was willing to move core 4 players and was out a week later...many people have speculated the boss didn't see eye to eye on that.

Tre should have made a bold move with Gaudreau when he didn't sign obviously

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

100 point team...so I said this before last season?

we digging up year old plus posts? because I bet 90% of Leaf fans said Dubas was better than Tre until two weeks ago.

anyway that is true...I am not saying Brad is terrible, I have said most of what he has done is pretty average. You disagree.

As for the Leafs they are kinda stuck...you really think he is trading core players and will be allowed to do so

we can bump this when they run back basically the same team

Think it was a post from September...so just before the season.

I just find it funny that the second a player or management member leaves the Flames you do the fastest 180 known to mankind on them. This isn't the first time you've done it and it's just hilarious IMO.

Up until April 17th you were a huge Brad Treliving defender...I can look back at lots of posts over the year talking about how it was all bad geography, wasn't his fault Tkachuk/Gaudreau left (which I don't actually disagree with), etc etc. That one was just my favorite.

I actually think Treliving was average to slightly above average too...don't think he was a great GM but do think he was a good guy that was really well respected around the league.

I just don't agree with all the posts saying that the only reason he got the job is because his dad, or completely changing my tune about the guy now. He was an average to above average GM, that was well respected around the league, and now he gets a chance to try his hand with a different team in an easier market from a geography perspective to attract and maintain talent.

Maybe he makes a big move this offseason...maybe he doesn't. I don't know what his bosses are asking of him, and I don't know what the trade market is for the players on his roster.

Originally Posted by dino7c

Dubas said publicly he was willing to move core 4 players and was out a week later...many people have speculated the boss didn't see eye to eye on that.

Honest question here...where was this speculated?

Most speculation I've seen has been in regards to commitment to the job, his salary asks, and not committing to the organization in the press conference. And Shanahan pretty much said as much. honestly haven't seen one piece of speculation that he was fired because he wanted to move on from core pieces.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Think it was a post from September...so just before the season.

I just find it funny that the second a player or management member leaves the Flames you do the fastest 180 known to mankind on them. This isn't the first time you've done it and it's just hilarious IMO.

Up until April 17th you were a huge Brad Treliving defender...I can look back at lots of posts over the year talking about how it was all bad geography, wasn't his fault Tkachuk/Gaudreau left (which I don't actually disagree with), etc etc. That one was just my favorite.

I actually think Treliving was average to slightly above average too...don't think he was a great GM but do think he was a good guy that was really well respected around the league.

I just don't agree with all the posts saying that the only reason he got the job is because his dad, or completely changing my tune about the guy now. He was an average GM, that was well respected around the league, and now he gets a chance to try his hand with a different team.

Maybe he makes a big move this offseason...maybe he doesn't. I don't know what his bosses are asking of him, and I don't know what the trade market is for the players on his roster.

covered all your bases I guess
I never said the only reason is his dad come on now...it was a factor though

I have hated the Leafs for 30 years now I am supposed to wish them well because a FORMER Flames GM is there, #### that in the A

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think the point is that the Toronto GM position would be considered a premium position in the league for one of the most historic teams with one of the largest fan bases.

And I think that's true.

I would say the only thing that makes the position less desirable is that you have Shanny over the top, and that seemed to be an issue with Dubas in terms of not having a direct line to the very top.

Bringing a Stanley Cup to Toronto would kind of be the pinnacle achievement for an NHL GM. Not hard to see why someone would want that challenge, even if the situation is not perfect.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Honest question here...where was this speculated?

Most speculation I've seen has been in regards to commitment to the job, his salary asks, and not committing to the organization in the press conference. And Shanahan pretty much said as much. honestly haven't seen one piece of speculation that he was fired because he wanted to move on from core pieces.

Leafs Insider has a article titled

Dubas let go by Leafs because he wanted to trade a core player

"I will consider anything with our group here that would allow us a better chance to win the Stanley Cup. I would take nothing off the table at all." - Kyle Dubas on locker cleanout day

"Just being different doesn't solve something." - Brendan Shanahan after firing Kyle Dubas

"We will not be making changes just simply for the sake of saying we made changes."
- Brendan Shanahan after the Leafs first round loss to the Tampa Bay Lightning in 2022

"Brendan Shanahan phoned each of the Leafs top players to share the news about Kyle Dubas," said Johnston. "Those players came away from those conversations under the belief that Shanahan's intentions are to bring the entire Core 4 back. That's not written in stone and the new GM could have a different perspective on that, but those players believe they're going to be back together at this time. I don't think these players are bracing to be traded now." - Johnston on Shanahan informing the Core 4 of the plans to fire Kyle Dubas

You have to read between the lines but...I think speculation at the very least is fair

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

holy #### dude READING is your friend

player transactions moving out core players for other players...I said he made bold moves with draft picks. Not afraid to make bold moves with core players is what I think is false.

Dubas said publicly he was willing to move core 4 players and was out a week later...many people have speculated the boss didn't see eye to eye on that.

Tre should have made a bold move with Gaudreau when he didn't sign obviously

Easy, bud, you’re getting wound up again. Chill

So, Treliving made bold trades with picks but not players. Huge difference. Glad we squared that up. Not sure why that matters one bit though.

If you can show me a source that said Dubas’s comment on his willingness to trade a core 4 guy had anything to do with his departure, I’ll acknowledge you were right and I wasn’t aware. Frankly I do t think, nor have I heard, this had anything to do with his firing and I duspyif it did it would be discussed on almost every podcast you could get your hands on.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by home_sweet_dome

Treliving's Flames tenure can best be summarized by:

Trading Monahan and a 1st for cap room to sign 32 year old Kadri to a 7 * $7M contract.

Horrendous cap management - check
Horrendous asset management - check
Viewed positively by majority of media and fans - check

While he was far from the worst GM in franchise history he's definitely the most over-rated IMO.

Your mandate is the make the playoffs and not take a step back.

You’ve just lost Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

How do you replace them? Take a look at the UFA list from last summer and at the players who were traded, and give me a better win-now move.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Your mandate is the make the playoffs and not take a step back.

You’ve just lost Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

How do you replace them? Take a look at the UFA list from last summer and at the players who were traded, and give me a better win-now move.

So he has zero responsibility in these?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Leafs Insider has a article titled

Dubas let go by Leafs because he wanted to trade a core player

"I will consider anything with our group here that would allow us a better chance to win the Stanley Cup. I would take nothing off the table at all." - Kyle Dubas on locker cleanout day

"Just being different doesn't solve something." - Brendan Shanahan after firing Kyle Dubas

"We will not be making changes just simply for the sake of saying we made changes."
- Brendan Shanahan after the Leafs first round loss to the Tampa Bay Lightning in 2022

"Brendan Shanahan phoned each of the Leafs top players to share the news about Kyle Dubas," said Johnston. "Those players came away from those conversations under the belief that Shanahan's intentions are to bring the entire Core 4 back. That's not written in stone and the new GM could have a different perspective on that, but those players believe they're going to be back together at this time. I don't think these players are bracing to be traded now." - Johnston on Shanahan informing the Core 4 of the plans to fire Kyle Dubas

You have to read between the lines but...I think speculation at the very least is fair

Who’s ‘Leafs Insider’ and why isn’t Friedman, seravelli, CJ, LeBrun supporting this?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TOfan

If you can show me a source that said Dubas’s comment on his willingness to trade a core 4 guy had anything to do with his departure, I’ll acknowledge you were right and I wasn’t aware. Frankly I do t think, nor have I heard, this had anything to do with his firing and I duspyif it did it would be discussed on almost every podcast you could get your hands on.

I just posted it, reading

[Ped]

The Leafs keep moving the goalpost. Prior to last season, all we heard was how a first round loss would be unacceptable no matter the circumstances. Then they lost in the first round, and the narrative changed to "well, we played better this time, so that's progress."


So this year they make it out of the first round, even though most agree they were outplayed, and then get swept in the second round. Everyone came out with "There has to be changes now, no excuses, someone has to go," and it appeared to be Marner or Nylander who most people thought would go. Keefe has been overmatched and he needed to go, too.


But now the narrative is changing again. "You can't bring in a new GM and make a major trade like that." Keefe is probably coming back now. Everyone is starting to say give them another chance.


They're going do the same thing. Tinker around the edges. Bring in cheap depth guys. Try it all over again.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Who’s ‘Leafs Insider’ and why isn’t Friedman, seravelli, CJ, LeBrun supporting this?

well the quotes are direct quotes from the people involved

Chris Johnston from TSN reported them...is he a big enough name for you

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Leafs Insider has a article titled

Dubas let go by Leafs because he wanted to trade a core player

"I will consider anything with our group here that would allow us a better chance to win the Stanley Cup. I would take nothing off the table at all." - Kyle Dubas on locker cleanout day

"Just being different doesn't solve something." - Brendan Shanahan after firing Kyle Dubas

"We will not be making changes just simply for the sake of saying we made changes."
- Brendan Shanahan after the Leafs first round loss to the Tampa Bay Lightning in 2022

"Brendan Shanahan phoned each of the Leafs top players to share the news about Kyle Dubas," said Johnston. "Those players came away from those conversations under the belief that Shanahan's intentions are to bring the entire Core 4 back. That's not written in stone and the new GM could have a different perspective on that, but those players believe they're going to be back together at this time. I don't think these players are bracing to be traded now." - Johnston on Shanahan informing the Core 4 of the plans to fire Kyle Dubas

You have to read between the lines but...I think speculation at the very least is fair

Hmm...maybe a little bit but I'm not sure it was a huge factor.

TBH most of the initial speculation I saw was the one of Dubas problems was he'd be unwilling to move any of those guys.

I actually think the most likely outcome under either Dubas or Treliving would have been that all 4 guys come back. Tavares isn't going anywhere. I doubt Marner is either.

So really it's Matthews or Nylander and unless those guys indicate they aren't willing to re-sign then I think they are tougher to trade. And I think the outcome after the Tkachuk trade makes all NHL GMs more hesitant to move top young players.

Now I think it's a whole other question if those guys say they don't want to come back. But I think if the Leafs pony up that they will stay.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Hmm...maybe a little bit but I'm not sure it was a huge factor.

TBH most of the initial speculation I saw was the one of Dubas problems was he'd be unwilling to move any of those guys.

I actually think the most likely outcome under either Dubas or Treliving would have been that all 4 guys come back. Tavares isn't going anywhere. I doubt Marner is either.

So really it's Matthews or Nylander and unless those guys indicate they aren't willing to re-sign then I think they are tougher to trade. And I think the outcome after the Tkachuk trade makes all NHL GMs more hesitant to move top young players.

Now I think it's a whole other question if those guys say they don't want to come back. But I think if the Leafs pony up that they will stay.

Guy, he literally said he would move one of them like a week before he was fired on locker cleanout day.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

well the quotes are direct quotes from the people involved

Chris Johnston from TSN reported them...is he a big enough name for you

Chris Johnson = CJ, reading.

[dino7c]

True or not or how much of a factor IDK...but the quotes are more than enough to be "speculation"

its nearing smoking gun territory

guy says he is open to trading one of them, gets fired, guy who fired him says change for the sake of change is stupid, phones players and leaves them feeling they are safe (coles notes)