Enough is enough - Bring up Wolf.

[dustygoon]

Starting to see trends and commonalities with both of our goalies. Tough not to chalk this up at least to some degree on goalie coaches.

Time to change out Sigalet? I think he should stay in the org and help with scouting, but maybe a different voice is needed.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Starting to see trends and commonalities with both of our goalies. Tough not to chalk this up at least to some degree on goalie coaches.

Time to change out Sigalet? I think he should stay in the org and help with scouting, but maybe a different voice is needed.

Thats exactly what he is doing now. heads up the goaltending dept. Labarbera coaches the goalies.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Thats exactly what he is doing now. heads up the goaltending dept. Labarbera coaches the goalies.

What? I knew Barbara was in there, but i thought Sigalet was a goalie coach too. Where have i been. Well screw that theory then.

EDIT: Flames site says Sigalet is Senior Goaltending Coach. However Sigalet was also called the Director of Goaltending whilst Labarbara was moved from assistant to just Goalie coach.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

What? I knew Barbara was in there, but i thought Sigalet was a goalie coach too. Where have i been. Well screw that theory then.

EDIT: Flames site says Sigalet is Senior Goaltending Coach. However Sigalet was also called the Director of Goaltending whilst Labarbara was moved from assistant to just Goalie coach.

At this point it doesn't really matter who does what, as the department as a whole hasn't been getting the job done essentially since the day Sigalet was hired. If he's a good scout them move him into scouting full time and remove him from having any influence on what happens with the goaltenders in the organization.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

At this point it doesn't really matter who does what, as the department as a whole hasn't been getting the job done essentially since the day Sigalet was hired. If he's a good scout them move him into scouting full time and remove him from having any influence on what happens with the goaltenders in the organization.

Yeah I was never on the "fire the goalie coach" train when we had trash like Smith back between the pipes, but the complete and total tanking of play from Markstrom and Vladar at the same time has me reconsidering this stance.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah every goalie in this org tends to get worse with more time spent in this org since Sigalet has been involved in the goalie staff.

Both Markstrom and lately Vladar have been playing so deep in their nets and the Whitecloud goal is a perfect example of that.

Honestly time to blow up the whole goaltending staff IMO

[Erick Estrada]

Vladar is a prime example. You would think in year two we would have a better grasp of his ceiling but he hasn't improved at all as his stats are worse than last season. Is that because maybe he's just not that good or is it because most goaltenders seem to get worse the more time they spend with the Flames? Going into year three the team really knows nothing more than they did last season which makes it really difficult to evaluate and commit to the player. If the organization was like say the Islanders, Bruins, Capitals, Predators, etc you could feel pretty confident that if he hasn't got it yet, he may never in the NHL but the Flames don't have a track record of developing goaltenders to fall back on.

[Burning Beard]

If Markstrom has his kid this week they have a perfect chance to play Wolf without embarrassing Markstrom or Vladar by putting one of them up in the rafters.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

If Markstrom has his kid this week they have a perfect chance to play Wolf without embarrassing Markstrom or Vladar by putting one of them up in the rafters.

Is not dressing Markstrom more embarrassing than playing him at this point? Honest question. He is really struggling, and clearly is unable to play out of it. He needs a reset.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Vladar is a prime example. You would think in year two we would have a better grasp of his ceiling but he hasn't improved at all as his stats are worse than last season. Is that because maybe he's just not that good or is it because most goaltenders seem to get worse the more time they spend with the Flames? Going into year three the team really knows nothing more than they did last season which makes it really difficult to evaluate and commit to the player. If the organization was like say the Islanders, Bruins, Capitals, Predators, etc you could feel pretty confident that if he hasn't got it yet, he may never in the NHL but the Flames don't have a track record of developing goaltenders to fall back on.

Markstrom didn't come here and drastically change his game. He was and is what he is. Pinning anything on the Goaltending staff for his terrible season is just head hunting in my opinion.

It is fair game to question development given the track record, however, you also have to acknowledge the fact that they are about to graduate one of the top goalie prospects in the league as a 7th round pick, so that says something too.

[Burning Beard]

]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Is not dressing Markstrom more embarrassing than playing him at this point? Honest question. He is really struggling, and clearly is unable to play out of it. He needs a reset.

I agree he needs a reset but I think with his personality you can't healthy scratch him if you hope for a bounce back next year. Let's be honest he is not going to be able to be traded in his current state.

Now I'm not close to the team but that's just my read on him.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Markstrom didn't come here and drastically change his game. He was and is what he is. Pinning anything on the Goaltending staff for his terrible season is just head hunting in my opinion.

It is fair game to question development given the track record, however, you also have to acknowledge the fact that they are about to graduate one of the top goalie prospects in the league as a 7th round pick, so that says something too.

Since 2015/16 when Markstrom started playing full time he never had a SV% under .910 until he joined the Flames and has had seasons of .904 and .889. If he is what he was in Vancouver he would be playing better than he has this season. Wolf has succeed in the AHL for the same reason he did in the WHL and that's because he's really good, not because the Flames had anything to do with it.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

]



I agree he needs a reset but I think with his personality you can't healthy scratch him if you hope for a bounce back next year. Let's be honest he is not going to be able to be traded in his current state.

Now I'm not close to the team but that's just my read on him.

I think you have to hope he’s able to have a stronger season next year with a reduced workload and plan to either offload him with retention or have an expensive backup who’s able to ensure they don’t play Wolf 70 games.

[devo22]

I don't know if it's more on the coaches or the goalies themselves, but something's got to give. The more stats you see, the more depressing it gets. This team is 2nd in shots for and 2nd in shots against. Team save percentage is .887%, 29th in the league. It's amazing that this team is even in contention for a playoff spot.

Goaltending is single-handedly ruining this season and the organization is dumb if they don't do anything about it soon.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by devo22

I don't know if it's more on the coaches or the goalies themselves, but something's got to give. The more stats you see, the more depressing it gets. This team is 2nd in shots for and 2nd in shots against. Team save percentage is .887%, 29th in the league. It's amazing that this team is even in contention for a playoff spot.

Goaltending is single-handedly ruining this season and the organization is dumb if they don't do anything about it soon.

I just posted this in another thread but it fits here too.

Low Danger:
Shots Against: 538 (2nd)
Goals Against: 24 (7th)
Save Percentage: .955 (23rd)
Ratio to Total Shots Against: 34% (32nd - lowest % of LD shots to total shots)

Medium Danger:
Shots Against: 508 (19th)
Goals Against: 74 (31st)
Save Percentage: .854 (31st)
Ratio to Total Shots: 31.7% (1st - Highest % of MD shots to total shots)

High Danger:
Shots Against: 457 (3rd)
Goals Against: 79 (7th)
Save Percentage: .827 (14th)
Ratio to Total Shots: 28.5% (16th)

The goalies have allowed an abnormal amount of Low Danger and Medium Danger goals against. Overall the save percentage is a little deflated because of how few low danger shots we allow, but overall the team doesn't allow many High Danger or Low Danger shots, but over index a bit on Medium Danger vs other teams.

Unfortunately medium danger is where we have the 31st save percentage in the league.

I feel like Wolf would have better than an .854 save percentage on Medium Danger shots.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by devo22

I don't know if it's more on the coaches or the goalies themselves, but something's got to give. The more stats you see, the more depressing it gets. This team is 2nd in shots for and 2nd in shots against. Team save percentage is .887%, 29th in the league. It's amazing that this team is even in contention for a playoff spot.

Goaltending is single-handedly ruining this season and the organization is dumb if they don't do anything about it soon.

I agree with everything you said except "single-handedly".

I'd blame this season about 60% on goalies, 35% on Huberdeau & 5% on Sutter.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I agree with everything you said except "single-handedly".

I'd blame this season about 60% on goalies, 35% on Huberdeau & 5% on Sutter.

It's 50-30-20 for me

If Sutter and Huberdeau both do better, we're a playoff team

If the goaltending is better we're a playoff team

Together, they're two halves of the blame pie

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I agree with everything you said except "single-handedly".

I'd blame this season about 60% on goalies, 35% on Huberdeau & 5% on Sutter.

I get the frustration with Huberdeau, but I don't see a single skater having that big of a negative impact on team success and I also don't agree with that ratio between him and Sutter, to be honest.

We're a bubble team with goaltending that's close to league-worst in almost every metric - imagine where they'd be with only bang average goaltending this season.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah every goalie in this org tends to get worse with more time spent in this org since Sigalet has been involved in the goalie staff.

Both Markstrom and lately Vladar have been playing so deep in their nets and the Whitecloud goal is a perfect example of that.

Honestly time to blow up the whole goaltending staff IMO

Agreed. It's overdue

The goalies obviously aren't being directed in the right way to help stem the bleeding. If it's one guy, it might be his own issues, but they're both showing eerily similar warts now and that's a sign that systemic coaching issues are likely factoring in.

They're both huge goalies playing too deep, going down too early and making themselves small.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by devo22

I get the frustration with Huberdeau, but I don't see a single skater having that big of a negative impact on team success and I also don't agree with that ratio between him and Sutter, to be honest.

We're a bubble team with goaltending that's close to league-worst in almost every metric - imagine where they'd be with only bang average goaltending this season.

Yeah I feel like if the team was 1st in the division because of better goaltending the narrative on Huberdeau would be "He needs to produce more but he's bought into the system and is playing better defensively than ever in his career"