Yeah, the whole 'he's not going to say they're worse' misses the point entirely. He could have said anything. He could have said the changes will be exciting.
But he chose to say - unprompted - that he thinks the team is better.
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Re the career years argument. That is fair. It is also fair to point out contract seasons for some of those career years. The people got back did well not in contract seasons so if Weegar remains unsigned he could have quite a year. There wasn’t a contract for Huberdeau to play for last year so it’s less compelling to say he had a career year and shouldn’t get the same. Yes that is possible. He may also do better playing with a better centre than Bennett.
I also think there may be a bit of a chip on the shoulder of some players in the team that read the press after Gaudreau and Tkachuk left. People like Lindholm, Coleman, Backlund, Markstrom, Mangiapane and others probably saw some of that material as a bit of a slight. At least if I was a coach I might use some of the bulletin board material. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a bit of a chip on their shoulder this year without Johnny and Matthew. While we can assume reasons for regression, there are equal possibilities for improvement.
Re the career years argument. That is fair. It is also fair to point out contract seasons for some of those career years...
I have got very few players on my depth chart penciled in for career years, and it still looks much better than last year. The thing is, Huberdeau can be a 90-point player, Lindholm 75-80, Kadri 65, and Mangiapane 50, and this will still push the Flames to an incredible season. One of the key reasons for that us how much this summer's changes have re-distributed the offense across more lines.
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From someone who was really down on the group for a few days in the aftermath of the Gaudreau departure and Tkachuk's announcement, I can say that this group is 100% improved and well suited to play the heavy style that Sutter demands.
The only thing remaining on my wish list would be to see Pelletier and Ruzicka both on the team and playing prominent roles on the 3rd/4th lines to start the season. This team has now become much older, and getting these younger players fully integrated early in the season will be a big boon later in the year.
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I agree with Markstrom that the Flames are better, but they won't get past the oilers if he continues his sub par play against them again next season.
He needs to be better, but I'm not worried that he's simply unable to play against the Oilers - his 5-5 numbers against them in the regular season were very good. It was the PK where they did the bulk damage and that is as much a team fault as it is the goaltender with the weapons that team has.
There's no doubt his play declined in the second round, but that had a lot to do with the team losing it's structure and playing into the Oilers circus style as it did his own slippage.
This improved defensive core and depth down the middle is going to go a long way in ensuring the Flames can handle matchup problems or injuries.
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No they are not. We still need a top line right wing forward.
Bread, probably isn’t the guy.. I do think he had a bit of a lucky year.
I think Toffoli is going to surprise all his nay-sayers and put up some good numbers on the top line this year. He was buried last year when he got here on the third line and pretty snake bitten as well.
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No they are not. We still need a top line right wing forward.
Bread, probably isn’t the guy.. I do think he had a bit of a lucky year.
The way the team is now constructed, it honestly doesn't matter. The Flames have 3, possibly 4 duos that can go toe to toe with just about any line in the league. These can be complemented by the likes of Toffoli, Dube, Pelletier however coach Sutter wants to round it out.
If they decide to move a D for a middle six forward or sign someone else, great. It is certainly not necessary if you ask me. This is probably more of a trade deadline consideration than game #1 anyway. I truly believe Pelletier is going to be a big factor for this team in 2022/2023 and there will be a lot more scoring coming from the D group than there has been for a while with Weegar, Kylington and Anderson able to really go after it.
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Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 08-25-2022 at 11:43 AM.
I think a lack of a play-driver (especially as a center) has hurt the Flames. I think Gaudreau, Lindholm, Backlund and Mangiapane were the only forwards that really drove the play last season. That's just the top 2 lines. A center that drives play can make both wingers more effective. I think that's why you often see career years in players playing alongside Backlund - Bouma, Colborne, Bennett (until he got to play with Huberdeau).
Now you bring Kadri into the mix.
Huberdeau + Lindholm will drive the play. Toffoli is a solid winger that always produces.
Mangiapane + Kadri will drive the play. Dube can learn on the job.
Backlund on the third line will be really good. Coleman isn't a play-driver, but he is very good defensively and not shy about barking orders too, so a revolving door of Schwindt, Ruzicka, Pelletier and whomever else is ok with me. Bennett and Tkachuk both did really well as rookies alongside Backlund. I think that's an IDEAL situation to help break-in rookies. I don't think the 4th line is helpful at all unless it is bottom 6 forwards breaking into the league.
I know Lewis is popular - and to his credit, he had a good playoffs. I would just like to see someone who brings a bit more on that 4th line - more speed, more physicality, maybe a bit more skill. Right now, it is a traditional energy-line, and I am ok with that, but I do think it needs more speed. However, at times with Lucic - Richardson - Lewis, I thought that line did VERY well and controlled the play on the ice, so maybe I am not being fair.
Defence is way better. 3rd in the league in points as a group, and you just added much more offence, defence and speed? I liked Gudbranson and everything he brought to the team, but Weegar is the direct replacement and he is a couple tiers better in every way except fighting. We will see how the pairings shake loose (I think Kylington plays with Zadorov in Gudbranson's spot), but this is looking really, really good.
My one and only 'gripe' if I can even call it that, is I sort of feel this team has gotten a bit weaker. I do think one of the reasons for the big turnaround last season was in large part to the identity this group had. I am not sure it still has it. I guess we will see. I am not really too concerned about it, but something to keep an eye on. I would say that Kadri has replaced Tkachuk's toughness and physicality too. Ritchie was not a good player, but he was really good on the forecheck and was quick to stick up for players, so it isn't all about Gudbranson leaving, but Gudbranson AND Ritchie leaving is removing a lot of intimidation. I think the Flames still have enough though.
No they are not. We still need a top line right wing forward.
Bread, probably isn’t the guy.. I do think he had a bit of a lucky year.
I think the shortage of a "top line" RW is overblown given how much better the new lineup looks through three lines. The Flames had a spectacular top line last year, and a decent top-nine. They have swapped that out for a bit of a downgrade at the top, and a huge infusion of depth down the lineup. Overall, that looks a lot better to me.
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People are getting so fixated on how stacked the top line is compared to how it was last season that they're overlooking the importance of Kadri/Mangiapane now running the second line, and Backlund/Coleman being bumped to the third line, which was previously next to useless and a weakness for the Flames.
They were immensely top heavy last season with that line being relied in for the bulk of the scoring. Now we can expect contributions through the top 3 lines and more balanced scoring.
Overall, it probably bodes better for the team against high end opponents in a playoff situation.
Depth tends to best out top heavy teams at the end of the day. So in that regard, we've taken a step forward.
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I think the shortage of a "top line" RW is overblown given how much better the new lineup looks through three lines. The Flames had a spectacular top line last year, and a decent top-nine. They have swapped that out for a bit of a downgrade at the top, and a huge infusion of depth down the lineup. Overall, that looks a lot better to me.
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I don’t disagree, but I do still think adding another scoring/play driving RW would be huge. That’s the piece that would “complete” this roster in my eyes. I think Rodrigues would be a good fill-in guy, but I’ve already got dreams of impact players that should be on the market later in the season.
Last edited by ComixZone; 08-26-2022 at 10:17 AM.
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Center is better
Defense is better if it stays as is
Vlader having more experience makes goaltending better
LW is probably the same or slightly better depending on Pelletier
RW is a little messy
So probably 3 or 4 out of 5 position groups are better.
