Huberdeau and Weegar Signing Discussion Thread

[1_Flames_Fan]

This is about signing Weegar and Huberdeau...why all the talk of the hotdog man in here?

[bluejays]

Wiener sounds close to Weegar, no?

[Sylvanfan]

Is it possible for three teams to do salary retention on a player? Say for example Anaheim agrees to take him. Absorb the Flames 5.25 portion for futures. Come deadline the Kings think they could use him, but need his cap number down. By than he's only owed about 150k by the rest of the year in salary. So Anaheim retains 50% to get the hit down to 2.625 which is too high for L.A. say Buffalo feels like being a broker, could they absorb another 50% of the reduced hit to get him to LA with a cap number of 1.3125 since the cost to them is $37500. They get the Ducks 4th and the Ducks get the Kings 3rd.

If something like that could happen, maybe Looch has some value for a floor team as a speculation play. Plus in the mean time, his job is to protect the young guys much like McGratten, and Westgarth did for the 13-14 Flames.

Of course the no trade makes this tricky since a team acquiring him will eventually want to trade him.

If you want to keep the two new guys, you likely need to keep all of the Monahan and Lucic expiring dollars.

[ba255]

Completely unrelated: but the perfect storyline: Huberdeau scores a hat trick when CBJ come to Calgary, horn goes off, “Johnny b Goode” blasting extra loud 3x

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Fire

I doubt Huberdeau takes less than 10M on a 8 year deal. Give him $10.5 on a 8 year deal and start rebuilding in 5 years when the contract starts to look ugly.

Gaudreau wasn't a totally free-market value, but he got 9.75 for age 29-35 years.

We'd be talking about Hube's age 30-37 years. 1 fewer prime year/2 more old years. 8x9.75M should be considered significantly more than JG's actual deal.

I'd say 8x9.75M should be about equal to the 8x10.5M CGY offered Gaudreau - Huberdeau's 37 year old season should be worth at least $6M less than Gaudreau's 29 yo season, accounting for the $84M vs. $78M total contract values.

[wired]

Originally Posted by Jacks

You hate to give an 8yr contract to a guy entering his 30's but someone will so do you want the player or not?
Gotta figure Huberdeau is going to want at least 9M, if the team is still trying to win you pretty much have to pay it.
No idea what Weegar is worth.

If they can't sign either of them I hope they do a trade right away to maximize value.

I think Huberdeau gets paid similar to MT. Maybe more due to taxes. But he is better than both players that left the team.
Weeger is very good, and also makes the team better with this trade. Sign long term if he wants it, 6.5-7 is what it will take IMO.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

This is about signing Weegar and Huberdeau...why all the talk of the hotdog man in here?

LandPhil!

[GS Skier]

So I heard, like many the interview with the Florida Press guy and likely the only one down there.

It seems Weeger is the head scratcher for them as a 1st pair guy who "with power play time" could tag 60 pts! 6'0" 200lbs! The guy from Florida suggested that it may have been his next contract that scared them off and he estimated 6-7 million for Weeger!!!

Remember when they said we'd never replace Giordano?

Did we just replace Gio to some extent?

We have the same group with Zadorov back and Weeger is a real top 4 guy where Gudbranson was a 5-6 guy who did the right thing and took the money...in Columbus he's 2nd on the depth chart.

No matter how you slice this team gave up just 208 goals, 3rd best in the league and while its a team stat the D is certainly stronger than last years.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Gaudreau wasn't a totally free-market value, but he got 9.75 for age 29-35 years.

We'd be talking about Hube's age 30-37 years. 1 fewer prime year/2 more old years. 8x9.75M should be considered significantly more than JG's actual deal.

I'd say 8x9.75M should be about equal to the 8x10.5M CGY offered Gaudreau - Huberdeau's 37 year old season should be worth at least $6M less than Gaudreau's 29 yo season, accounting for the $84M vs. $78M total contract values.

Huberneau is only 2 months older than Gaudreau. His agent knows the Flames offered 10.5/yr for Johnny for 8 years. I can't see why he would take less.

[PuckDemon]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Gaudreau wasn't a totally free-market value, but he got 9.75 for age 29-35 years.

We'd be talking about Hube's age 30-37 years. 1 fewer prime year/2 more old years. 8x9.75M should be considered significantly more than JG's actual deal.

I'd say 8x9.75M should be about equal to the 8x10.5M CGY offered Gaudreau - Huberdeau's 37 year old season should be worth at least $6M less than Gaudreau's 29 yo season, accounting for the $84M vs. $78M total contract values.

Man, those post-35 seasons could be brutal. I hope we can knock that down to 8x9.5M or less. I was fine with Gaudreau's 8X10.5M only because at that point Calgary had zero leverage and any trade return was negligible.

I guess this is why Florida made the trade. They wanted to pass this problem onto us.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Is it possible for three teams to do salary retention on a player? Say for example Anaheim agrees to take him. Absorb the Flames 5.25 portion for futures. Come deadline the Kings think they could use him, but need his cap number down. By than he's only owed about 150k by the rest of the year in salary. So Anaheim retains 50% to get the hit down to 2.625 which is too high for L.A. say Buffalo feels like being a broker, could they absorb another 50% of the reduced hit to get him to LA with a cap number of 1.3125 since the cost to them is $37500. They get the Ducks 4th and the Ducks get the Kings 3rd.

If something like that could happen, maybe Looch has some value for a floor team as a speculation play. Plus in the mean time, his job is to protect the young guys much like McGratten, and Westgarth did for the 13-14 Flames.

Of course the no trade makes this tricky since a team acquiring him will eventually want to trade him.

If you want to keep the two new guys, you likely need to keep all of the Monahan and Lucic expiring dollars.

Yes you can do double retention, but pretty sure it's max twice (50% then 50% = max 75% off)

Domi this year went from CBJ to CAR via FLA. Pretty sure Foligno and Lehner and a few others were at their TDL deals.

Season before last VGK even got double retention on Janmark's 2.25M to knock it down to 562.5k...I didn't think it was possible to go below league min salary (currently 750k), but there ya go.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Fire

Huberneau is only 2 months older than Gaudreau. His agent knows the Flames offered 10.5/yr for Johnny for 8 years. I can't see why he would take less.

The difference is he's already under contract for this season, so an 8-year extension would go one year longer (and make him one year older) than the same 8-year deal they offered to Gaudreau. He'll be 37 in the final year rather than 36.

For that reason, I think it could end up being less than 10.5, but probably not a full million per year less. Between Gaudreau's 9.75 and 10.25 are my guess if he signs for 8 years before the start of the season.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Drunk Uncle

The same level of patience would be walking them to UFA.

I don’t expect that.

Did you just restate what I said?

“It’s a nice night for an evening”

[Heavy Jack]

So looking forward to when they sign so that nhl twitter can get a life, the amount of snooty fans who are just coming across as bitter is comical. They’ll melt down when the flames extend them Hahahahaha, lots of them already preparing pivots to still say the flames lose the trade.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Fire

Huberneau is only 2 months older than Gaudreau. His agent knows the Flames offered 10.5/yr for Johnny for 8 years. I can't see why he would take less.

Yes, but the difference between those 8 year contracts is a 29 year old year vs. a 37 year old year.

For sake of argument, say each year is valued as follows (pretty simplistic to make the numbers work; obviously very debatable - and to be clear this has nothing to do with salary breakdown, just what a FMV would be in each given year):

29 - 13
30 - 13
31 - 12
32 - 12
33- 10
34 - 9
35 - 8
36 - 7
37 - 6

Take 29-36 and you get $84M. Take 30-37 and you get $77M (8x9.625).

As I said, it's hard to actually nail down fair 'values' for any given year, and you don't actually have to have things total up sensibly (using these number Johnny's 7 year deal 'should' have been 77M., but its an illustrative way to look at it.

For reference, here are a few other similar wingers in that tier:
Stone age 27-34
Kucherov age 26-33
Panarin age 28-34

But of course you also gotta factor cap inflation in there, which is especially weird these last few years.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Gaudreau wasn't a totally free-market value, but he got 9.75 for age 29-35 years.



We'd be talking about Hube's age 30-37 years. 1 fewer prime year/2 more old years. 8x9.75M should be considered significantly more than JG's actual deal.



I'd say 8x9.75M should be about equal to the 8x10.5M CGY offered Gaudreau - Huberdeau's 37 year old season should be worth at least $6M less than Gaudreau's 29 yo season, accounting for the $84M vs. $78M total contract values.

But we're getting Huberdeau's 29 year old year at $5.9.

And Johnny got 9.75 for 29-36 (8 years)

So only one year difference with a cheaper age 29 year for Huberdeau. We can have him for 9 years and he'll only be one year older than Gaudreau at the end of it. If rebuild isn't the goal, pay the man.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by chedder

But we're getting Huberdeau's 29 year old year at $5.9.

For this we should do him a favour and pay extra to get him at 37?

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

For this we should do him a favour and pay extra to get him at 37?

I thought we were talking value for prime years. Huberdeau at 5.9 this year then if it takes 10.5 to get him to sign you do it. Otherwise he's gone and we rebuild. Sure it may not be great in year 7 and 8. But neither would Gaudreau and everyone wanted that deal.

You're always going to be paying too much for ufa stars in their twilight.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by chedder

You're always going to be paying too much for ufa stars in their twilight.

That doesn't mean you volunteer to pay too much. If Huberdeau was underpaid on the last contract he negotiated with Florida, too bad for him, but that's not our problem and we are not responsible for fixing it.

[flylock shox]

Or we could wait and see how he performs in Calgary first.

As stoked as I am on the trade, he's still an aging winger coming off likely the best season he'll ever have. If we pay him 10.5 for 7 or 8, what would we give to a franchise centre coming off an ELC to lock up their prime years? McDavid money?

If it's 8 years for Huberdeau, AAV should be under 10 I reckon.