[LOL] Coyotes release their STH seating chart for their 5000 person arena

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

Yup. I didn't do a deep dive. Clearly. Nor, will I. I'm just saying it's hypothetically feasible to make money in a tiny arena.

Imagine the opposite of a stadium experience. Set up a 5000 person arena for a Maple Leafs vs Canadiens game. Or a BoA? How much could you sell those tickets for? The Corral was just over 7000 people. I'm old enough, but unfortunately never got to attend a game there. Must have been glorious. If I get the opportunity to attend a Coyotes game in that venue, I might take it. It's a novelty that will wear off, but will be interesting for a short time.

The Corral was super fun for the fans. IIRC, the top row was about 16 or 20, so you can imagine that the worst seat in the house was better than more than half of the Dome. I guess the worst "seat" would have been the standing room only crowd, but even that would be reasonably close to the action.

Not so fun for the players. Dressing rooms are atrocious, and the boards were high and basically made of concrete.

[TheScorpion]

Wasn't the Corral already like 30 years old when the Flames played there? At least Mullett Arena is brand new ... I'm sure the dressing rooms will be nice.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

No, it absolutely isn't.

$650M was the [reported*] price to cut the pie into 32 pieces instead of 31.

Meruelo could probably get 3-400M - another $200(ish)M would go to the league as a relocation fee.

If the NHL tried to revoke his franchise, he would certainly take that number to court when he sued the league. And you may be sure the NHLPA would be filing a suit right alongside him for the loss of 23 jobs.

The days are long gone when the NHL can simply decide to shut down a franchise without offering any compensation to the owners.

[Jordan!]

Hey..

https://www.coyotesintempe.com Is likely to be approved before Christmas and this is a temporary solution. Also, Mullett arena is a legendary name.

In my 13 years here in AZ, this is the first and only time I'm hearing people randomly discuss the Coyotes in an excited and positive way (Outside of the 2012 conference finals run)

What's funny is that people take this coyotes thing so personal, it's hilarious. How does it affect you in any way?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

What's funny is that people take this coyotes thing so personal, it's hilarious. How does it affect you in any way?

Oh, it's simple. For some Canadian fans, the mere existence of the Coyotes is proof that Gary Bettman is a horrible cartoon villain whose sole purpose in life (being American) is to take all of Canada's hockey teams away and give them to people who don't want or deserve them.

Canadian nationalism was originally founded on fear of Americans, and it comes out in all sorts of foolish ways.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

Yup. I didn't do a deep dive. Clearly. Nor, will I. I'm just saying it's hypothetically feasible to make money in a tiny arena.

Imagine the opposite of a stadium experience. Set up a 5000 person arena for a Maple Leafs vs Canadiens game. Or a BoA? How much could you sell those tickets for? The Corral was just over 7000 people. I'm old enough, but unfortunately never got to attend a game there. Must have been glorious. If I get the opportunity to attend a Coyotes game in that venue, I might take it. It's a novelty that will wear off, but will be interesting for a short time.

Except you just looked at payroll. An NHL team's operating budget would be closer to $150M.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

Hey..

https://www.coyotesintempe.com Is likely to be approved before Christmas and this is a temporary solution. Also, Mullett arena is a legendary name.

In my 13 years here in AZ, this is the first and only time I'm hearing people randomly discuss the Coyotes in an excited and positive way (Outside of the 2012 conference finals run)

What's funny is that people take this coyotes thing so personal, it's hilarious. How does it affect you in any way?

It impacts me personally because Bettman rolls into Calgary, tells the media our 18k arena is crap and can't support a hockey team and the city needs to spend public funds (i.e our money) to build the Flames a new arena.

Then he flies down to Phoenix and joins in the mutual masturbation fest over the Coyotes playing in a 5k arena branded for the university hockey team.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Except you just looked at payroll. An NHL team's operating budget would be closer to $150M.

Average attendance in the NHL is ~18,250 (2018/2019)
Average NHL ticket price in the NHL is $82.58

Source for those numbers is Google

If they sell out every game the Coyotes would need to charge $301.42/ticket to make the average per game. I came up with ~$400 using the salary cap number. Whichever, it wasn't intended to be a thesis on the economics of an NHL team.

Is this very simple math. Yes . Does it count in all factors. No. But, I feel it's enough to confidently say a tiny arena is hypothetically feasible. For the short term. And, it will be a fun experience for those who go.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

It impacts me personally because Bettman rolls into Calgary, tells the media our 18k arena is crap and can't support a hockey team and the city needs to spend public funds (i.e our money) to build the Flames a new arena.

Then he flies down to Phoenix and joins in the mutual masturbation fest over the Coyotes playing in a 5k arena branded for the university hockey team.

Did you miss the part where the Coyotes are also lining up for public money to build a new arena – and in a market three times our size? Nobody is such an idiot as to think the current arrangement is either permanent or sustainable.

‘Mutual masturbation fest’ is not even a ridiculous exaggeration of the facts. It's a ridiculous exaggeration of a blatant lie.

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by getbak

Just when you thought it couldn't get any better...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1562204518770544640

If I know anything about ASU, it's not the front of the mullet...

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Did you miss the part where the Coyotes are also lining up for public money to build a new arena – and in a market three times our size? Nobody is such an idiot as to think the current arrangement is either permanent or sustainable.

‘Mutual masturbation fest’ is not even a ridiculous exaggeration of the facts. It's a ridiculous exaggeration of a blatant lie.

1. Whether the Coyotes get public money or not has no impact on Bettman trying to pressure Calgarians to spend public money on a new arena. Pretty large point for you to ignore.

2. Did you miss where the poster said there is more buzz for the Coyotes than he has experienced before, and where Bettman has been defending this move and calling the Phoenix area a "good market". Mutual masturbation fest is hyperbole, but far from a lie.

Like it or not Phoenix has recieved more protection than Quebec or Winnipeg did.

It's not unjustified for Canadians to note the double standard.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

1. Whether the Coyotes get public money or not has no impact on Bettman trying to pressure Calgarians to spend public money on a new arena. Pretty large point for you to ignore.

Do you really think Bettman isn't doing exactly the same thing in Arizona? I'm not ignoring anything.

2. Did you miss where the poster said there is more buzz for the Coyotes than he has experienced before, and where Bettman has been defending this move and calling the Phoenix area a "good market". Mutual masturbation fest is hyperbole, but far from a lie.

Yes, he's trying to pump the tires of Phoenix as a market to encourage Tempe to agree to an arena deal. Nobody needs to pump Calgary's tires, so he takes a different approach here.

In both cases he's doing his job, which is to make money for the owners who pay his salary.

Like it or not Phoenix has recieved more protection than Quebec or Winnipeg did.

Nobody wanted to own a team in Winnipeg at that time. Nobody wanted to own a team in Quebec. During the period when the Phoenix franchise was without an owner, none of the other 29 owners wanted to let the Coyotes move and take away a lucrative expansion market in Seattle or Las Vegas.

When there was an owner with money who wanted to put a team back in Winnipeg, the league did so – and it left one of the ten biggest U.S. markets to make that happen. There still hasn't been any owner with money who would put a team in Quebec.

It's not unjustified for Canadians to note the double standard.

It's actually completely unjustified, because the double standard only exists in the realm of conspiracy theory.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

1. Whether the Coyotes get public money or not has no impact on Bettman trying to pressure Calgarians to spend public money on a new arena. Pretty large point for you to ignore.

2. Did you miss where the poster said there is more buzz for the Coyotes than he has experienced before, and where Bettman has been defending this move and calling the Phoenix area a "good market". Mutual masturbation fest is hyperbole, but far from a lie.

Like it or not Phoenix has recieved more protection than Quebec or Winnipeg did.

It's not unjustified for Canadians to note the double standard.

You can add Pittsburgh to the list too. Bettman pulled out all the stops to protect the twice bankrupt Penguins from leaving town by getting into direct talks with the City and governor when they were possibly going to relocate.

Not to mention fixing the Crosby lottery for them.

I actually support doing everything to help the Coyotes stay. It makes a lot of sense and I think it could be a really good market and balances out the geography really well. There is some favoritism when it comes to which markets they will go to bat for and which they don't, but maybe it is deserved. I don't recall much effort spent trying to prevent the Thrashers from relocating.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Do you really think Bettman isn't doing exactly the same thing in Arizona? I'm not ignoring anything.



Yes, he's trying to pump the tires of Phoenix as a market to encourage Tempe to agree to an arena deal. Nobody needs to pump Calgary's tires, so he takes a different approach here.

In both cases he's doing his job, which is to make money for the owners who pay his salary.



Nobody wanted to own a team in Winnipeg at that time. Nobody wanted to own a team in Quebec. During the period when the Phoenix franchise was without an owner, none of the other 29 owners wanted to let the Coyotes move and take away a lucrative expansion market in Seattle or Las Vegas.

When there was an owner with money who wanted to put a team back in Winnipeg, the league did so – and it left one of the ten biggest U.S. markets to make that happen. There still hasn't been any owner with money who would put a team in Quebec.



It's actually completely unjustified, because the double standard only exists in the realm of conspiracy theory.

This is full of so much revisionist history it's actually laughable. You realize the NHL blocked the sale of the Coyotes to Balsillie who wanted to move them to southern Ontario? The NHL then had to buy the team themselves because there were no other buyers.

Then three years later after not having a buyer the NHL agreed moving the team to Seattle would be just fine.

Please do share this level of committment exhibited by the league for Winnipeg, Quebec City or even the Oilers.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

This is full of so much revisionist history it's actually laughable. You realize the NHL blocked the sale of the Coyotes to Balsillie who wanted to move them to southern Ontario?

Balsillie made multiple attempts to buy franchises and relocate them without the league's permission and against the wishes of the existing owners. They blocked the sales because none of the owners wanted to do business with him. And they were quite right to do so, because it turned out that Balsillie didn't have the money he was promising to spend. While he was swinging his dick around trying to tell the NHL how to run its business, Apple, Google, and Samsung moved in on his business and ate his lunch.

The NHL then had to buy the team themselves because there were no other buyers.

They took over the team in bankruptcy until they could find a buyer – which, in due course, they did.

Then three years later after not having a buyer the NHL agreed moving the team to Seattle would be just fine.

That never happened. They sold an expansion franchise to Seattle, as you know perfectly well. And you have the nerve to accuse me of ‘revisionist history’!

Please do share this level of committment exhibited by the league for Winnipeg, Quebec City or even the Oilers.

I can give you 1.15 billion reasons why they didn't want the Coyotes to move. Those reasons did not apply when the Jets and Nordiques moved, and the Oilers did not move at all.

Are you even aware of the NHL's currency equalization scheme, by which the U.S. owners spent many millions of dollars to subsidize small-market Canadian teams? Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, and possibly even Vancouver would have folded without that help.

And can you possibly be unaware of the salary cap, which was also brought in to protect the financial viability of the small markets? Harley Hotchkiss worked long and hard to get that system in place, because he knew it was the only way of saving his franchise. And Gary Bettman worked with him every step of the way.

[theinfinitejar]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

This is full of so much revisionist history it's actually laughable. You realize the NHL blocked the sale of the Coyotes to Balsillie who wanted to move them to southern Ontario? The NHL then had to buy the team themselves because there were no other buyers.

Then three years later after not having a buyer the NHL agreed moving the team to Seattle would be just fine.

Please do share this level of committment exhibited by the league for Winnipeg, Quebec City or even the Oilers.

The NHL didn't want to let an owner use a phony bankruptcy to do an end around on their bylaws.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Did you miss the part where the Coyotes are also lining up for public money to build a new arena – and in a market three times our size? Nobody is such an idiot as to think the current arrangement is either permanent or sustainable.

‘Mutual masturbation fest’ is not even a ridiculous exaggeration of the facts. It's a ridiculous exaggeration of a blatant lie.

The Coyotes aren't "lining up public money"

Nothing even comparable to what The Flames were looking to do.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Like it or not Phoenix has recieved more protection than Quebec or Winnipeg did.

It's not unjustified for Canadians to note the double standard.

This is also BS.. who wanted to own the teams in those cities??

I'll wait

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

The Coyotes aren't "lining up public money"

Nothing even comparable to what The Flames were looking to do.

They're not proposing to buy the site of their arena and pay the full remediation costs. That means there's public money involved.

If it were just a question of the City of Tempe approving a building permit for a purely private project, this would have gone a lot quicker and easier.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Balsillie made multiple attempts to buy franchises and relocate them without the league's permission and against the wishes of the existing owners. They blocked the sales because none of the owners wanted to do business with him. And they were quite right to do so, because it turned out that Balsillie didn't have the money he was promising to spend. While he was swinging his dick around trying to tell the NHL how to run its business, Apple, Google, and Samsung moved in on his business and ate his lunch.



They took over the team in bankruptcy until they could find a buyer – which, in due course, they did.



That never happened. They sold an expansion franchise to Seattle, as you know perfectly well. And you have the nerve to accuse me of ‘revisionist history’!



I can give you 1.15 billion reasons why they didn't want the Coyotes to move. Those reasons did not apply when the Jets and Nordiques moved, and the Oilers did not move at all.

Are you even aware of the NHL's currency equalization scheme, by which the U.S. owners spent many millions of dollars to subsidize small-market Canadian teams? Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, and possibly even Vancouver would have folded without that help.

And can you possibly be unaware of the salary cap, which was also brought in to protect the financial viability of the small markets? Harley Hotchkiss worked long and hard to get that system in place, because he knew it was the only way of saving his franchise. And Gary Bettman worked with him every step of the way.

This is like arguing with a flat earther anti vax plandemic person. You just pretend what happened didn't. The NHL had to buy the Coyotes in bankruptcy because they had no buyer who wasn't wanting to move the team.

The NHL did not step in to stop the sale of the Jets or Nordiques to owners who wanted to move the teams.

These are just facts that you ignore and show a massive push by the NHL to protect the Coyotes.

Further, the NHL absolutely approved Key Arena in Seattle as a landing spot for the Coyotes to put pressure on Glendale to further prop up the franchise (they couldn't sell the team unless Glendale agreed to large concessions). Just because you don't know something doesn't make it not true.