LeBrun: Flames are looking at every single scenario to try and keep Giordano

[Nelson]

This may sound overly optimistic. But I believe Treliving is humble enough to learn from his mistakes. I’m hoping Treliving doesn’t overpay UFAs if he has a bunch of cap space. Last offseason, I thought Treliving’s UFA signings were more reasonable compared to earlier in his tenure.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

I don't see how picking Gio makes sense for Seattle. $6.75M in cap space alone has a ton of value. IMO they'll get more value out of offering that to a contender in cap hell than they will out of picking Gio. I think they're bluffing, and the right play here is to leave him unprotected and don't pay anything.

I know some people think it's unthinkable that the Kraken don't take Giordano if exposed.

But I suspect those people haven't looked at what else is going to be available from other teams.

Frankly there are better, cap controlled options out there. Giordano is a declining d-man. Useful if you're making a playoff run, not so much if you're building a core to an expansion team.

And the widely held consensus is that the Kraken won't be spending to the cap, instead they'll just be getting over the cap floor. So they're going to be futures and potential heavy in the expansion draft.

As such, I think it's 50/50 that the Kraken take Kylington over Giordano.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm completely fine with you ignoring all on ice stats and just counting playoff games to make your decisions.

I'm just not going to join you.

Last two years ...
26th CF%
32nd in CA60
41st in SA60
35th in xGF%
29th in xGA60
62nd in HDCF%
39th in HDCA60

31 teams ... the math isn't tough that's 1,1,2,2,1,2,1 for average in terms of defenseman.

The data just doesn't support your odd take.

So it is a no brainer the Flames protect him you can run your stats and the #4 out of the Flames 4.5+ mil for at least 3 years gets snapped up by Seattle and the Flames get out from under a bad contract.

I certain hope that your stats don't show the Flames are overloaded with too many 1/2 d-men.

[3rd Degree]

With where this team is currently at competitively, why would the Flames do anything other than trade Gio? He’s a depreciating asset. Churning assets at the optimal time is the key. Hanging on too long, like they did with Iggy and Kipper, hurts your future ability to build a competitive team.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

We could only hope signing Hyman and Yandle turn out like Hudler and Wideman.

And that's a low bar.

newer anxiety: OEL

haha no this is happening. we are absolutely going to trade for OEL

Yeah in terms of UFAs both Wideman and Hudler were pretty good. Particularly Hudler, who I'm not even a fan of, but I recognize that was a damn good signing for the team - with a guy that performed well (until the final year) and that was traded for some good assets at the end.
I'll take that all day.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Seattle is not picking Lucic to get a second and third round pick. That’s absurd. That’s more in line with the cost of not picking Gio and going with Kylington.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I agree with you. I am saying those are the types of moves I would be okay with. I don’t think Lucic plays close enough to his cap hit so I would be okay spending that price to dump him but I also do not think he is useless and I do think he provides value to the team so the likely actual cost is not worth it to me.

By no means should the Flames be putting the 12th pick in a deal to protect Gio even if it means Lucic is going.

If all it costs is a 3rd to keep Gio and have the Kraken take someone else then I am good with it. If a 2nd or 2nd+ is required I can only get behind moving Lucic but no one else. Not realistic at all though

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by 3rd Degree

With where this team is currently at competitively, why would the Flames do anything other than trade Gio? He’s a depreciating asset. Churning assets at the optimal time is the key. Hanging on too long, like they did with Iggy and Kipper, hurts your future ability to build a competitive team.

They already held on to Giordano too long. Now they're threatening to throw away more futures to hold on even longer.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So it is a no brainer the Flames protect him you can run your stats and the #4 out of the Flames 4.5+ mil for at least 3 years gets snapped up by Seattle and the Flames get out from under a bad contract.

I certain hope that your stats don't show the Flames are overloaded with too many 1/2 d-men.

What bad contract?

The Flames have exactly 1 of those and he isnt a defenseman.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So it is a no brainer the Flames protect him you can run your stats and the #4 out of the Flames 4.5+ mil for at least 3 years gets snapped up by Seattle and the Flames get out from under a bad contract.

I certain hope that your stats don't show the Flames are overloaded with too many 1/2 d-men.

What is Tanev? I honestly don't know. He had a great season and can certainly be part of a top pairing.

Giordano has been part of a top pairing for years, but has waned a touch in the last two, and could descend further ... father time will eventually make him a 4-6 guy, likely soon.

Hanifin took a step forward but how much of that was on Tanev?

Andersson looked ready to move into a top pairing role, but took a step back last year.

So yeah if Giordano isn't taken the Flames have four guys that could be top pairing defensemen, but it's pretty hard to say.

But none of that changes the discussion about how Giordano has played. He has value, would fetch a decent return this summer with some salary retained, and unless he implodes likely fetch a 1st or 2nd at the deadline if a team was willing to move him (who knows where the Flames will be).

If Tanev hits an injury wall, or last year was an aberration he likely should be the guy exposed. No way to 100% know.

[topfiverecords]

I can’t wait until this part of The Process is over on Wednesday.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by cannon7

They already held on to Giordano too long. Now they're threatening to throw away more futures to hold on even longer.

Huh?

The guy was signed to a six year contract at age 33 which was scary.

Had 3 great seasons, then two that were still pretty solid, one a Norris, and is still good enough in the final year that you worry about losing him.

How is that hanging on too long?

Unless you're saying they should have moved him for assets because the team was flawed ... then I get what you're saying.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Schrodinger's Giordano.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I know some people think it's unthinkable that the Kraken don't take Giordano if exposed.

But I suspect those people haven't looked at what else is going to be available from other teams.

Frankly there are better, cap controlled options out there. Giordano is a declining d-man. Useful if you're making a playoff run, not so much if you're building a core to an expansion team.

And the widely held consensus is that the Kraken won't be spending to the cap, instead they'll just be getting over the cap floor. So they're going to be futures and potential heavy in the expansion draft.

As such, I think it's 50/50 that the Kraken take Kylington over Giordano.

Half the players they take are going to be flipped as assets. One year of a top-four D plus the deadline return of at least a 2nd is good value. The Kracken will have more than enough Kylingtons on their roster.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

As much as I'd love to see this, given the history with this GM, I fear it'll be the same lineup with some new 4th line scrubs for good measure with some of Gio's money going to Johnny's new inflated salary. Pat and the panel was talking about it on 960 yesterday. It was a consensus (for what that's worth) that they are going to roll with a similar lineup with the top line of Johnny, Lindholm and Tkachuk being given the full year to see what they have... wash, rinse, repeat.

Yup I heard Pat setting the table for very little change in terms of the core or high end part of the roster.

I know he claimed this was just his opinion and not inside info but I was worried when I heard that. I am not a Treliving hater but I am getting close to be joining the many who want to fire him.

This roster needs a shakeup

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Yup I heard Pat setting the table for very little change in terms of the core or high end part of the roster.

I know he claimed this was just his opinion and not inside info but I was worried when I heard that. I am not a Treliving hater but I am getting close to be joining the many who want to fire him.

This roster needs a shakeup

I don't really buy this from a "move pieces out" perspective. They need to ADD two legit top-9 forwards who can actually score, and they need to find a way to get more offense from their blueline.

I don't think there's a problem with the players we have under contract, but more that we just don't have enough good players. This team played with Leivo/Simon/Nordstrom/Ritchie cycling through their top-9 last year - and that is unacceptably bad. You can't expect to be a good team while giving minutes to players that contribute nothing offensively.

...sounds like they may also need to overcome losing their best defenceman, which will be tough.

If they can add those pieces and overcome losing Giordano, they should be able to compete for a playoff spot and be one of those teams hoping to "just get in" and see what happens.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What is Tanev? I honestly don't know. He had a great season and can certainly be part of a top pairing.

Giordano has been part of a top pairing for years, but has waned a touch in the last two, and could descend further ... father time will eventually make him a 4-6 guy, likely soon.

Hanifin took a step forward but how much of that was on Tanev?

Andersson looked ready to move into a top pairing role, but took a step back last year.

So yeah if Giordano isn't taken the Flames have four guys that could be top pairing defensemen, but it's pretty hard to say.

But none of that changes the discussion about how Giordano has played. He has value, would fetch a decent return this summer with some salary retained, and unless he implodes likely fetch a 1st or 2nd at the deadline if a team was willing to move him (who knows where the Flames will be).

If Tanev hits an injury wall, or last year was an aberration he likely should be the guy exposed. No way to 100% know.

Do all the Flames d-men have great number like Gio? Or do the numbers you use to provide support for Gio give a clear indication of who should be exposed? Who would analytics say isn't a 4.5M d-man?


Can't count on injuries... When Gio was more physical he had a string of 3 out of 4 years where he was injured for 15-20 games.

[Roof-Daddy]

If Gio gets taken by Seattle I wouldn't be surprised if the Flames once again go after OEL

I'd like to see them try to grab Martinez myself, as long as the contract wasn't too crazy, and he has a history with Sutter obviously.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Half the players they take are going to be flipped as assets. One year of a top-four D plus the deadline return of at least a 2nd is good value. The Kracken will have more than enough Kylingtons on their roster.

THIS.

An expansion franchise wants to accumulate as many assets as they can as soon as they are able.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Do all the Flames d-men have great number like Gio? Or do the numbers you use to provide support for Gio give a clear indication of who should be exposed? Who would analytics say isn't a 4.5M d-man?


Can't count on injuries... When Gio was more physical he had a string of 3 out of 4 years where he was injured for 15-20 games.

It's not that simple.

Andersson and Hanifin are young and cost controlled ... that adds value.

Tanev cost controlled with some worry about the final two years potentially.

Giordano older with one year left to go.

This isn't a sort your defensemen by xGF% and leave the one at the bottom exposed exercise.

For the record though ... only Tanev has a better xGF% than Giordano on the Flames blueline in the last two years (500+ minutes)

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don't really buy this from a "move pieces out" perspective. They need to ADD two legit top-9 forwards who can actually score, and they need to find a way to get more offense from their blueline.

I don't think there's a problem with the players we have under contract, but more that we just don't have enough good players. This team played with Leivo/Simon/Nordstrom/Ritchie cycling through their top-9 last year - and that is unacceptably bad. You can't expect to be a good team while giving minutes to players that contribute nothing offensively.

...sounds like they may also need to overcome losing their best defenceman, which will be tough.

If they can add those pieces and overcome losing Giordano, they should be able to compete for a playoff spot and be one of those teams hoping to "just get in" and see what happens.

I feel like last offseason was the last one where they went and added a piece to the core and hope it works out. Last offseason they had some cash and got Markstrom who I thought was a good move. Tanev for Brodie worked out better than we all thought.

I go back to the Flames adding Hall as the realistic dream in the sense I think it is possible but it is still a bit of a pipe dream based off the rumors he and Boston want to get a deal done.

I see some LHD that could help soften the blow of losing Gio primarily Oleksiak or Edler. Hanifin-Tanev would need to remain as solid as they were last year but with one of Edler/Oleksiak in addition to Valimaki, Mackey and Kylington the Flames can absorb the loss of Gio I hope