Should/Will the Flames keep Ward

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Ok, I was wondering if maybe Wars was without a contract and part of the holdup was him looking around as well, but if he's under contract and the flames haven't made an announcement yet it's a bit more awkward.

Was it Keenan that the flames hired without letting him pick his assistants? I think that's weird.

Have to believe a new head coach coming in here with an existing group of assistants might be a sticking point but I don't actually know how common or uncommon that is.

It's becoming more common for teams to insist on at least 1 assistant coach.

[browna]

I really do think that a decision has been made and the organization is letting Ward decide his future, which is the large part of this “delay”...to give him time to figure if he wants to stay on as an associate or move on.

No way Treliving gets burned after 1.5 or less seasons by having another “players” coach get trampled on, as what happened with GG.

How it ended last year (last season and the last Fall with his resignation) seems to make people forget that Peters made this team the best in the West over 82 games.

Roster was unchanged this year and Ward never got them up to the same level of intensity.
But, they got to play music and soccer in practice again, so it was all ok.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The flames could be waiting for availability in another organization that has yet to conclude their playoff series.

Maybe another assistant coach from Vancouver? Worked out well the last time.

[Poe969]

I just realized I voted they should...

They should 100% NOT keep Ward unless its as an associate/assistant coach.

The team needs a coach who understands the game more. I guess it depends on what the actual team looks like moving forward.

[Crown Royal]

On the idea of someone still being in the playoffs, I do believe the Isles Lane Lambert is pretty well thought of around the league. He's been Trotz's assistant/associate coach since 2011-12. Before that he was the head coach in Milwaukee where his worst season was 11 games over .500.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The flames could be waiting for availability in another organization that has yet to conclude their playoff series.

Jon Cooper? I think he probably is on the hot seat, though the team has gone decently deep this year.

Edit: Also think he will become a hot commodity if he becomes available, though, and other coaches currently available might also be waiting to see if that opportunity opens up in Tampa Bay.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

On the idea of someone still being in the playoffs, I do believe the Isles Lane Lambert is pretty well thought of around the league. He's been Trotz's assistant/associate coach since 2011-12. Before that he was the head coach in Milwaukee where his worst season was 11 games over .500.

One problem is that AHLers want to make it to the NHL. NHLers have made it. And are getting paid.

You can’t have the experience dealing with NHL egos as a head coach until you have done it. And then there is having done it successfully. Having a coach with a pedigree may be required for this team, if your view is that the core has been underperforming

The Flames do not need Tre to be the smartest guy in the room on this one and go off the board

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

One problem is that AHLers want to make it to the NHL. NHLers have made it. And are getting paid.

You can’t have the experience dealing with NHL egos as a head coach until you have done it. Having a coach with a pedigree may be required for this team, if your view is that the core has been underperforming

The Flames do not need Tre to be the smartest guy in the room on this one and go off the board

I was simply throwing a name out there that could be a possibility, no more, no less.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

One problem is that AHLers want to make it to the NHL. NHLers have made it. And are getting paid.

You can’t have the experience dealing with NHL egos as a head coach until you have done it. And then there is having done it successfully. Having a coach with a pedigree may be required for this team, if your view is that the core has been underperforming

The Flames do not need Tre to be the smartest guy in the room on this one and go off the board

I always find "smartest guy in the room" cringe worthy.

You don't want to limit your GM to making a decision that he doesn't want to make because it will make him look like he's trying to be the smartest guy in the room.

Hire who he thinks would be the best coach and or staff. Period.

If you don't think he's the guy to pick said coach that's a whole other discussion, but one that needs to happen quite quickly as he's about to make the call.

[kukkudo]

Don't think Tre is going to go off board this time knowing his job is on the line going into next season.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I always find "smartest guy in the room" cringe worthy.

You don't want to limit your GM to making a decision that he doesn't want to make because it will make him look like he's trying to be the smartest guy in the room.

Hire who he thinks would be the best coach and or staff. Period.

If you don't think he's the guy to pick said coach that's a whole other discussion, but one that needs to happen quite quickly as he's about to make the call.

Call it what you want. I could have chosen a different phrase if I knew you wouldn’t like it but the point still stands

There has been that same asterisk with each of his hand selected hires

Neither guy had been successful as a head coach as a NHL head coach. Both had been head coaches, but not with any material success

So Tre has to think that something will be different with his roster plus coach X

Why would Treliving think that they could be successful with his team?

That is somewhat of a ‘smartest guy in the room’ problem, isn’t it? Kind of like the Jankowski draft? You see something that other people don’t see and are willing to stake some of your professional results on it

I don’t apologize for using that phrase, but welcome suggested alternatives

[activeStick]

I've been expecting the Flames to make an official announcement today before the game 7 since Elliotte Friedman mentioned it earlier this week. We'll see.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Call it what you want. I could have chosen a different phrase if I knew you wouldn’t like it but the point still stands



There has been that same asterisk with each of his hand selected hires



Neither guy had been successful as a head coach as a NHL head coach. Both had been head coaches, but not with any material success



So Tre has to think that something will be different with his roster plus coach X



Why would Treliving think that they could be successful with his team?



That is somewhat of a ‘smartest guy in the room’ problem, isn’t it? Kind of like the Jankowski draft? You see something that other people don’t see and are willing to stake some of your professional results on it



I don’t apologize for using that phrase, but welcome suggested alternatives

You may have a point with Gulutzan, but I don't think it stands with Peters. He was not an "off the board" hire at the time, and given his resume to that point I expect that Treliving's thoughts and feelings about him were widely held among hockey executives and observers.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

You may have a point with Gulutzan, but I don't think it stands with Peters. He was not an "off the board" hire at the time, and given his resume to that point I expect that Treliving's thoughts and feelings about him were widely held among hockey executives and observers.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

I think another team was also interested in Peters but his body of work in Carolina wasn't exactly stellar. There was a bit of a leap involved in believing he could do better than .500 with another roster. To Treliving's credit he did just that in the Flames first season but then came the issue of him really wearing thin with the players extremely quickly. Also the Hurricanes seemed to get instantly better with Brind'amour.

[activeStick]

Any theories around how a dominant, first in the west ream turns into this year's version over the offseason? Same coach and mostly the same players.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Any theories around how a dominant, first in the west ream turns into this year's version over the offseason? Same coach and mostly the same players.

The team pretty visibly quit on Ward after the all-star break last season. Stayed true through the start of this season.

Under Ward the team battled back to some degree, but was still inconsistent to a degree that shouldn’t be acceptable.

[mile]

At least with Dallas winning last night Bowness has likely cemented his place as the teams permanent HC next season. One less potential destination spot for coaches who are looking.

[Calgary4LIfe]

There was a lot of posts that were not too happy at first with rumours that Peters was going to be the new coach. People quickly looked at his numbers and then underlying metrics of the Canes, and came to the conclusion that those metrics were eerily similar to Calgary's.


Now, of course the Flames experienced an awesome regular season, and everyone was happy about Peters (myself included), but questions started arising again quickly in the playoffs as he just didn't seem to be able to make adjustments in countering what the Avs were doing. Maybe he was and the Flames weren't executing - that's a different conversation I guess, but a coach has to find a way to make his team able to execute his gameplan, or find another workable solution that they can execute, IMO.


Either way, he was let go for his past, but there was a growing and ever louder contingent of fans who felt that he was not a really good coach.


Maybe Hockey Canada considered Peters a really good coach and he was on their radar, but does that REALLY say much? Babcock has been considered as some 'amazing coach', but is he? Do we really care what Hockey Canada really thinks? Know why I say this? I seem to recall a time that they were deciding between Babcock and.... Brent Sutter! Yes, Brent Sutter was heralded as some amazing coach himself by Hockey Canada, so does their opinion really matter all that much? Not enough to weigh it heavily in any direction over any other 'expert' opinion out there.


Coaching is a really mixed bag of failures and success. There are only two things that I look out now, and they of course greatly favour the experienced coaches, and will always miss out on any new 'up and comers' that will eventually go on to be considered fantastic coaches.


1) Has this coach won a Stanley Cup as a head coach?
2) Does this person have an actual track record of entering an organization and turning that organization around almost instantly - on more than one occasion? Has he seemed to make the team better than the sum of their parts?


Sure, you miss out on the Steve Sullivans, but you also miss out on the Greg Gilberts and Don Hays.



So, whether I am right or wrong, have an overly-simplistic view of coaching, or whatever else that probably (and accurately) applies, I will feel a heck of a lot better if the Flames find a coach that fits both parameters that I have. Oh... and please do the character research so just in case this guy did some terrible things in his past that will come out to embarrass the Flames again.


Just a track record of some sort - actually won a cup (since the last 2 didn't), and have a notable track record of improving teams (last 2 didn't). Just try something different?

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

There was a lot of posts that were not too happy at first with rumours that Peters was going to be the new coach. People quickly looked at his numbers and then underlying metrics of the Canes, and came to the conclusion that those metrics were eerily similar to Calgary's.


Now, of course the Flames experienced an awesome regular season, and everyone was happy about Peters (myself included), but questions started arising again quickly in the playoffs as he just didn't seem to be able to make adjustments in countering what the Avs were doing. Maybe he was and the Flames weren't executing - that's a different conversation I guess, but a coach has to find a way to make his team able to execute his gameplan, or find another workable solution that they can execute, IMO.


Either way, he was let go for his past, but there was a growing and ever louder contingent of fans who felt that he was not a really good coach.


Maybe Hockey Canada considered Peters a really good coach and he was on their radar, but does that REALLY say much? Babcock has been considered as some 'amazing coach', but is he? Do we really care what Hockey Canada really thinks? Know why I say this? I seem to recall a time that they were deciding between Babcock and.... Brent Sutter! Yes, Brent Sutter was heralded as some amazing coach himself by Hockey Canada, so does their opinion really matter all that much? Not enough to weigh it heavily in any direction over any other 'expert' opinion out there.


Coaching is a really mixed bag of failures and success. There are only two things that I look out now, and they of course greatly favour the experienced coaches, and will always miss out on any new 'up and comers' that will eventually go on to be considered fantastic coaches.


1) Has this coach won a Stanley Cup as a head coach?
2) Does this person have an actual track record of entering an organization and turning that organization around almost instantly - on more than one occasion? Has he seemed to make the team better than the sum of their parts?


Sure, you miss out on the Steve Sullivans, but you also miss out on the Greg Gilberts and Don Hays.



So, whether I am right or wrong, have an overly-simplistic view of coaching, or whatever else that probably (and accurately) applies, I will feel a heck of a lot better if the Flames find a coach that fits both parameters that I have. Oh... and please do the character research so just in case this guy did some terrible things in his past that will come out to embarrass the Flames again.


Just a track record of some sort - actually won a cup (since the last 2 didn't), and have a notable track record of improving teams (last 2 didn't). Just try something different?

The list of available coaches who have won the cup are: Babcock, Bylsma, Carlyle, Crawford, Laviolette, Larry Robinson, Darryl Sutter.

For your other criteria of joining multiple teams leading to significant improvements, I think only Sutter, Robinson and Laviolette fit, if we ignore Babcock.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by activeStick

The list of available coaches who have won the cup are: Babcock, Bylsma, Carlyle, Crawford, Laviolette, Larry Robinson, Darryl Sutter.

For your other criteria of joining multiple teams leading to significant improvements, I think only Sutter, Robinson and Laviolette fit, if we ignore Babcock.

1. Darryl Sutter
2. Bruce Boudreau
3. Peter Laviolette

Those are my top 3 choices of “known” coaches.

Darryl Sutter has actually won a cup in this era of hockey. I’d be happy to see him return behind the bench.

I’d be overjoyed to have Darryl back.