[Signing] Oilers have re-signed Koskinen (3 yrs, $4.5 mil AAV, 15 team NTC)

[morgin]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Nobody on this message board really knows anything about contracts FALSE and what agents and managers are thinking behind closed doors TRUE. We don't know really know what his actual demand is FALSE nor do we know what his worth would be on the open market FALSE. As idiotic as Peter Chiarelli has been with trades TRUE and player acquisition TRUE, he's still an experienced NHL GM TRUE, BUT IRRELEVANT and has a Stanley Cup to his name TRUE. So he probably still knows a little more than we do regarding situations like this. SHOULD BE TRUE, BUT IS IN FACT FALSE

See above.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Relocating from Edmonton to Winnipeg is more of a lateral move.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of course any kind of hockey discussion goes right back to this with you. I know you feel quite clever with crap like this but it's honestly pathetic.

[oldschoolcalgary]

i haven't found one media source outside of Edmonton that actually said this is a great signing... most have expressed surprise from what i could find.

mainly because Koskinen is such an unproven quantity at this point in time... arguably, he's been playing worse of late because NHL shooters are 'figuring him out'; don't know if that's true, but its surprising that they simply didn't wait until the end of the year.

Is there a bargain contract on that oilers roster? Chiasson maybe? everyone else is overpaid and over term...

i'd bet Koskinen becomes another bad contract sooner rather than later

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Considering how tight our cap situation is next year, I'd rather they jump out ahead and make the deal early. The Flames have Tkachuk, Rittich and Bennett to sign with limited cap space. Good thing is, David Rittich is an RFA, so the threat of the open market isn't as big of an issue.

As "big of an issue"? This part makes the contract negotiations completely different. If you don't get this... Rittich has virtually no open market to test.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Nobody on this message board really knows anything about contracts and what agents and managers are thinking behind closed doors. We don't know really know what his actual demand is nor do we know what his worth would be on the open market. As idiotic as Peter Chiarelli has been with trades and player acquisition, he's still an experienced NHL GM and has a Stanley Cup to his name. So he probably still knows a little more than we do regarding situations like this.

It sounds like you're suffering from 'Oiler-itis.'

Known more often by its more common streetname: "Smartest Guy in the Room Syndrome."

Sure. Lots of what you say is true, but when you look at the obvious comparables and overall reaction League-wide by everyone then you generally have to arrive at one of two conclusions:

1. Chia screwed up and signed a contract that doesnt pass the initial smell test and overall seems ludicrous given all comparables and the team's own cap situation.

or...

2. Chia knows something we dont and is actually The Smartest Guy in the Room.

Do you think Chia is the Smartest Guy in the Room? Because most of the Hockey world appear as though they wouldnt trust him to fill their water bottles.

[GioforPM]

An NTC clause in Edmonton is probably a throwaway anyway.

But a 15 team NTC clause for a goalie might as well be a complete NTC, because it's pretty easy to whittle the league down to 15 teams that would want to trade for a goalie, especially at $4.5. You think of any team that has good goaltending, or is already overspending at the position. Then you list the others.

[Saqe]

I mean, credit to Koskinen.



That's how much you have to overpay to get someone to stay on that dog #### team. I'm not even sure that's enough compensation for wasting three years of your life.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Locke

Why? Hes already in Edmonton, theres really nowhere to go but up.

Usually the player negotiates to get the NTC.

I think the Oilers in this case paid Kostkinen a bit extra to take one. For the optics if having someone who wants to play in Edmonton

Think about it. You see the expression on the face of McDavid and Lucic. These guys don’t look like they want to be there. Goalies wear masks, you can’t see their faces.

When Kostkinen’s new mask has a smiley face on it, we will know it is true.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I know a lot about contracts, actually. And deferring to Chi's wisdom seems a little off given he's universally seen to have overpaid on every major signing he's made, except, I guess, walk-on Chiasson and maybe McDavid. Lucic, Russell, Draisaitl, etc. - are those examples of Chia's acumen in "situations like this"?

Koskinen is not in a better position than Jones. Jones was not just pretty good in the AHL - he was excellent (and the AHL is a much more similar league to the NHL than the KHL). He also had international experience, as well as being well known as one of the best backups in the league. He didn't have that many NHL starts, but they were over a couple seasons, so not just a one season hot run, like Koskinen in the early part of this season. He'd already beaten Scrivens out of a job in LA. Finally, he had been traded for for a pretty big price, and therefore knew that SJ was going to have to sign him. And he still got $1.4 less than Koskinen.

Koskinen, on the other hand, had no North American experience, had a terrible last 10 games of play, would have known that a number of goalies were coming onto the market in the offseason, had a rival in Talbot, who though bad this year, has been good in the past and had frankly played roughly equal to him in the most recent games. Tell me - what team was aching to sign him in the offseason?

Still have no idea know why you're comparing an RFA deal signed in 2015 to a UFA deal signed in 2019, the 2 deals are not comparable. if anything, you'll want to compare Martin's $5.75M deal which makes more sense.

Koskinen's last 10 games hasn't been great. But that team itself has been quite bad in itself, it hasn't been just on the goaltender. Also, his previous games were actually quite good when he was sitting near the top in the league in sv%. Like I said earlier, he's actually been one of the bright spots for this terrible team and without him, they'd be near the league's basement as Cam Talbot has had himself a Mike Smith type year.

As for the goaltending market, I assume it's going to be the same teams that will be looking at a Sergey Bobrovsky or a Semyon Varlamov, but won't want to pay what these guys are looking for since they're both having rough years.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

30 games this season? I don’t see how that is a comparable. He has played 30 games in his CAREER.

I'm looking at games played this year because of his performance this season. This is his only NHL benchmark, which is why it's confusing they did this so early. That said, his new contract isn't really that expensive for being a team's #1 goaltender in this league in comparison; his numbers are generally middle of the pack right now.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Martin Jones was never even drafted. He was pretty good in the AHL, played 34 total games as a legitimate back up over 2 seasons and some teams thought he had the potential to be a #1. So he was traded for and signed a $3 million deal in 2015 as an RFA.

Koskinen is actually in a better position IMO. He's played in the KHL for years and did well. He has stolen the job from the Oiler's previous #1 in Cam Talbot and as a UFA in 2019 with the cap sitting at where it is and rising, he should theoretically get more.

Nobody on this message board really knows anything about contracts and what agents and managers are thinking behind closed doors. We don't know really know what his actual demand is nor do we know what his worth would be on the open market. As idiotic as Peter Chiarelli has been with trades and player acquisition, he's still an experienced NHL GM and has a Stanley Cup to his name. So he probably still knows a little more than we do regarding situations like this.

Martin Jones was not drafted because of a CBA loophole. He was passed over in his first year of eligibility, but he absolutely would have been taken in his second.

Also, I really don't see how Koskinen is in a better position. He plays for a worse team, and given how things have gone, his numbers are more likely to continue to get worse than better. While you are correct that we don't know what the demands were, there is little reason to think that Koskinen's contract is anything but an overpay.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by the2bears

As "big of an issue"? This part makes the contract negotiations completely different. If you don't get this... Rittich has virtually no open market to test.

He's still eligible for an offer sheet. That's why I threw it out there. He still is after all, a "Free Agent."

[transplant99]

A day later and this deal makes less and less sense by the minute despite the desperate spin by some.

This "deal" is being panned hard and wide right across the entire league and with the news coming out there is a limited NTC attached now, is being outwardly mocked. It SCREAMS incompetance on several levels which all but confirms this is a Lowe/MacTavish decision.

The Oilers just outbid themselves (or maybe St. Petersburg) for a guy who has played averagely after a great start (behind a horrendous defensive club mind you) and has been in steep decline the last 5 weeks.

These are the kind of moves that generally lead organizations to clean house and start over, but in the Oilers case that is not something they ever do. Shuffle the deck, toss a couple chairs overboard, and declare the aging vessel the newest and best luxury liner ever built. All the while the hull has 2 foot gashes in it and is taking on water rapidly while the captain and his crew swill the best cognac and smoke the best cigars available in the wheelhouse.

It's truly remarkable.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Martin Jones was not drafted because of a CBA loophole. He was passed over in his first year of eligibility, but he absolutely would have been taken in his second.

Also, I really don't see how Koskinen is in a better position. He plays for a worse team, and given how things have gone, his numbers are more likely to continue to get worse than better. While you are correct that we don't know what the demands were, there is little reason to think that Koskinen's contract is anything but an overpay.

Koskinen is in the better position to make more money because he's a UFA and he's proven to his team, that he's going to be their #1 this season and going forward. What other option does Chiarelli or whoever else is in charge going to have next year? They had no goaltender under contract.

Sign Bobrovsky or Varlamov to potential albatross contracts? Or sign Koskinen to a deal now. Who knows what those other 2 I just mentioned are going to get, so Koskinen's deal might actually end up looking great in comparison. IMO, contracts are all about supply and demand and leverage and unless we're actually in the business itself, we're just left to guess what we think is right.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Koskinen is in the better position to make more money because he's a UFA and he's proven to his team, that he's going to be their #1 this season and going forward. What other option does Chiarelli or whoever else is in charge going to have next year? They had no goaltender under contract.

Sign Bobrovsky or Varlamov to potential albatross contracts? Or sign Koskinen to a deal now. Who knows what those other 2 I just mentioned are going to get, so Koskinen's deal might actually end up looking great in comparison. IMO, contracts are all about supply and demand and leverage and unless we're actually in the business itself, we're just left to guess what we think is right.

Oh I don't know....maybe wait until you know this guy is actually a long term solution when you have way more information at years end?

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

So it turns out that the most air-tight, no movement clause in the entire NHL is in Peter Chiarelli's contract. I mean since he's still employed at this point, that has to be the case, right?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Still have no idea know why you're comparing an RFA deal signed in 2015 to a UFA deal signed in 2019, the 2 deals are not comparable. if anything, you'll want to compare Martin's $5.75M deal which makes more sense.

Koskinen's last 10 games hasn't been great. But that team itself has been quite bad in itself, it hasn't been just on the goaltender. Also, his previous games were actually quite good when he was sitting near the top in the league in sv%. Like I said earlier, he's actually been one of the bright spots for this terrible team and without him, they'd be near the league's basement as Cam Talbot has had himself a Mike Smith type year.

As for the goaltending market, I assume it's going to be the same teams that will be looking at a Sergey Bobrovsky or a Semyon Varlamov, but won't want to pay what these guys are looking for since they're both having rough years.

Ummm, it was compared because you brought up that exact signing (and not Jones' present contract). And, of course, the present contract starts this season, and was signed after 3 years of 60+ starts, at save% in each season higher than Koskinen presently sports. Jones is also a year younger.

Yes, Koskinen had a run of good games. In November. In December he was a mediocre .907 and his last 4 games that month were terrible. Really we are talking about a goalie that had a good 10 game run three months ago, and whose numbers have trended down ever since.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Locke

It sounds like you're suffering from 'Oiler-itis.'

Known more often by its more common streetname: "Smartest Guy in the Room Syndrome."

Sure. Lots of what you say is true, but when you look at the obvious comparables and overall reaction League-wide by everyone then you generally have to arrive at one of two conclusions:

1. Chia screwed up and signed a contract that doesnt pass the initial smell test and overall seems ludicrous given all comparables and the team's own cap situation.

or...

2. Chia knows something we dont and is actually The Smartest Guy in the Room.

Do you think Chia is the Smartest Guy in the Room? Because most of the Hockey world appear as though they wouldnt trust him to fill their water bottles.

Chiarelli is not the smartest guy in the room. He's made a lot of poor acquisitions and he's getting his fair share of blame. But he also has a Stanley Cup on his resume which is something none of us here can say we have.

The actual problem here is that because it's Chiarelli, everyone just assumes every move he makes is bad, almost as if he's incapable of making a decision that could even remotely be seen as right or even ok.

I also don't have all day here to explain to each and everyone my opinion on the matter. So the last thing I'm going to say is that there's a little bit too much overreaction in this thread in my opinion. This was not some kind of Ilya Bryzgalov albatross or some crazy long term Roberto Luongo type contract. It's a 3 year deal. Easy to stomach, easy to buy out. If he plays 50-60 games next season for them and at his current ability, then the deal will turn out fine. There's certainly a lot more glaring issues on this team than Miiko Koskinen.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Chiarelli is not the smartest guy in the room. He's made a lot of poor acquisitions and he's getting his fair share of blame. But he also has a Stanley Cup on his resume which is something none of us here can say we have.

The actual problem here is that because it's Chiarelli, everyone just assumes every move he makes is bad, almost as if he's incapable of making a decision that could even remotely be seen as right or even ok.

I also don't have all day here to explain to each and everyone my opinion on the matter. So the last thing I'm going to say is that there's a little bit too much overreaction in this thread in my opinion. This was not some kind of Ilya Bryzgalov albatross or some crazy long term Roberto Luongo type contract. It's a 3 year deal. Easy to stomach, easy to buy out. If he plays 50-60 games next season for them and at his current ability, then the deal will turn out fine. There's certainly a lot more glaring issues on this team than Miiko Koskinen.

His current ability is about .891 save%. Overreaction? Nah, just high amusement.

BTW, the goalie situation is partly caused by their impatience with Brossoit. I wonder if they'd like him back. Who decided not to extend him at the expensive price of $650K?

[Robbob]

That contract is going to age as well as the one Turek signed after his 11 game hot streak.