[Rumour] Lebrun: CGY & CAR talked about Lindholm trade that could involve Hamilton and Hanifin

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Demetric

not Mark but Michael ....

Ohhhhhhh.

[iloveicedhockey]

Originally Posted by 868904

Sure fancy stats say that, but what do you see? I see Giordano covering up a lot of Hamilton's mistakes. I see mistakes from both Brodie and Hamilton. Just go back and isolate and watch Hamilton, there are a lot of problems defensively and Giordano covers a lot of them. You could even argue that Giordano's offensive game has been hampered by covering up for Hamilton. Giordano had no problem putting up points while paired with Brodie.

Don't get trapped into relying fully on fancy stats.

Like I said, I'm going off of what I see, which is Brodie being superior when paired with Giordano. Am I biased? maybe, but it's the same bias that the Brodie haters have. Honestly I really have no reason to be bias, I don't know the players personally, they are all Flames to me and I want them all to succeed. But this is what I see. I'm not here to say trade Hamilton cause he sucks, i'm just curious why there is so much hate for Brodie. I see them both as fairly equal and if Hamilton can get a better return because his stock is high cause he's been playing with Giordano, than sure make a deal. I'm comfortable knowing that if that happens, the Flames can always fall back on reuniting Brodie with Giordano for an elite number one pairing; Flames won't take a hit at all in that regard. They will need to shore up the second and third pairs though.

I mean, those figures included looking at dougie without Giordano on the ice. Gio can't cover up mistakes while sat on the bench.

More Lindholm talks scheduled for tomorrow with canes management apparently.

If, for example, a potential deal is Lindholm and hanifin for dougie, the following outcomes could happen.

Best: Lindholm becomes a 55-65 point winger/2c and hanifin fulfils draft protection and becomes an all round stud franchise defenceman. Dougie regresses without gio.

Worst: Lindholm stays as he is as a 40 point guy and hanifin falters/sticks as a second pairing, number 4 guy. Hamilton hits 60 points regularly and is consistently in top 5 Vezina/Norris/hart/rocket/lady Byng /Oscar voting.

Middle: Lindholm improves to a fifty point guy, hanifin to a 2-3. Dougie continues as he has been, around 50 - 55 points.

I have no idea of the likelihood of each one happening.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I think the media, for a variety of reasons, has really hated on Dougie and I think that has really crept into the on-air braodcasts, and how the talking heads talk about him in this market. Lou really doesn't like him, and most fo teh other Fan960 guys don't, the one who does like him is Rhett Warrener and I would say his opinion matters more than Eric Francis or Loubardias.

Basically I think the constant discussion that dougie isn't a team player is largely overblown by the media who want to make it a thing, because they need something to talk about and because they need a scapegoat.

Was dougie's effort sometimes questionable in his own end? absolutely.
Were his point totals still excellent for a Dman despite playing in a largely stifling system under GG? Probably
Is he still young and the best chance the flames have had in a long time to have a norris finalist Dman year in year out for the next 7 years? Yes

I don't think you trade him just because there are no other tradeable (getting "fair" or expected value) assets on this roster after the dumpster fire last season and to just make a move to make a move.

Unless you are getting multiple 1sts, a middle 6 winger, and a top 4 dman I don't see why you would even consider moving him.

I think the 960 guys parrot what they hear from sources inside the Flames. So it’s not media speculation or narrative construction it’s rather a gauge as to how the org feels about a player. It could be those day to day swings in sentiment that can be expected- so the team could feel a player is crap one day but warms to them the next.

Dougie might not get traded but my guess is he’s pissed off people at times and you’re hearing that venting of Flames’ brass.

[CMPunk]

Originally Posted by iloveicedhockey

I mean, those figures included looking at dougie without Giordano on the ice. Gio can't cover up mistakes while sat on the bench.

More Lindholm talks scheduled for tomorrow with canes management apparently.

If, for example, a potential deal is Lindholm and hanifin for dougie, the following outcomes could happen.

Best: Lindholm becomes a 55-65 point winger/2c and hanifin fulfils draft protection and becomes an all round stud franchise defenceman. Dougie regresses without gio.

Worst: Lindholm stays as he is as a 40 point guy and hanifin falters/sticks as a second pairing, number 4 guy. Hamilton hits 60 points regularly and is consistently in top 5 Vezina voting.

Middle: Lindholm improves to a fifty point guy, hanifin to a 2-3. Dougie continues as he has been, around 50 - 55 points.

I have no idea of the likelihood of each one happening.

He's going to put up 60 points and stop all the pucks? Impressive, we better keep him

[sureLoss]

News Update

LeBrun expands on this in his latest blog:

https://theathletic.com/402450/2018/...rade-karlsson/

–Elias Lindholm is a player to monitor. The Hurricanes, in a perfect world, would simply like to re-sign the RFA forward but talks haven’t progressed to this point although the player’s agent, Peter Wallen, and GM Don Waddell were slated to chat on Friday. We’ll see where that goes. In the meantime, while it’s way more likely that Jeff Skinner and Justin Faulk get traded out of Carolina, Lindholm is the player that’s garnered by far the most interest from other teams. And why not, he’s 23 years old, can play centre and right wing, and the best is yet to come from a young player who had 16 goals and 44 points this past season. Among the many teams that have reached out over the past few weeks is the Calgary Flames, who are searching for a top-six upgrade. I believe those conversations got large enough where the names of Noah Hanifin from the Hurricanes and Dougie Hamilton from the Flames were also involved at one point, but those talks fizzled, as far as I can tell. I guess you never know if both teams re-engage over the next few weeks or not. Again, at the end of the day, the priority for Carolina is to re-sign Lindholm and keep him if they can.

[Toonage]

So LeBrun first reports on this last night but now according to him these talks were actually "over the past few weeks" and have "fizzled".

He didn't check this yesterday?

[Icon]

In other words, backpedaling in case nothing happens.

[Moneyhands23]

Who will be disappointed if the flames do nothing this weekend?

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Toonage

So LeBrun first reports on this last night but now according to him these talks were actually "over the past few weeks" and have "fizzled".

He didn't check this yesterday?

He said yesterday the talks were a few weeks ago and not on the front burner anymore.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Who will be disappointed if the flames do nothing this weekend?

I don't think a Flames move needs to involve the draft. I'm more interested what shakes out on July 1. Even if its the Flames making a trade so that someone else (or the Flames) has cap room to make a signing.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

He said yesterday the talks were a few weeks ago and not on the front burner anymore.

My mistake.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Icon

In other words, backpedaling in case nothing happens.

No.

In other words, E4 borderline 5

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Who will be disappointed if the flames do nothing this weekend?

Does the season start Monday? If so then yes I would be disappointed.

[kukkudo]

So Hamilton is on the block? Treliving trying to see who will overpay hopefully.

[Split98]

Still not geared up to lose Hamilton, but if we do I can only hope that 2016 Brodie makes his triumphant return:

They’re Keith and Seabrook good right now, of Doughty and Muzzin pedigree, and have become the caboose of a Calgary team that simply doesn’t spend enough time in its own zone to lose many games these days. With a modicum of goaltending

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...libre-defence/

I've always thought breaking up Gio and Brodie was a huge mistake, but it seemed like Brodie was the only casualty and we ended up with a solid pairing in Gio-Hamilton.

Gio - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Andersson - Stone
Kulak

These pairings clicking will really help fill that hole, and give us a great 1st pairing IF Brodie can pick-up where he left off. Big question there IMO, but I really really loved that pairing before it was broken.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

^You do realize that Keith (Giordano) is still good while Seabrook (Brodie) is pretty much terrible now, right? Not the best analogy to throw out there. We can't make lines based on what worked 3 or 4 years ago. We have to work with what is happening right now.

In any scenario where Hamilton is traded, I'd love to see Giordano with Hamonic as a top pair.

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1009886312168673281

https://twitter.com/user/status/1009886384243527681

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by wretched34

If management is trading Dougie Hamilton without drastically improving this team, because "Somethings off with him", it's not Dougie that's "Off".
From all accounts with teammates, he's loved in the dressing room. He's proven to be great in the community.
If a GM is trading a guy over work ethic in practice or off the ice, while he demonstrates year in and year out to be one of the best in his position, The GM is the one who has "Something Off with him".

I would guess that the thing that would be "off" about him is not the things you talk about (which are fairly immaterial to actually icing a great hockey team), but the Flames management's belief that Hamilton (and certainly Brodie) have been propped up some what by Gio.

Now I'm not saying it is true, but if the Flames really believe that, it would make sense to cash out while his value is highest, especially for a couple of players like Lindholm and Hanafin.

Management is privy to all sorts of information we as fans are not.

[iloveicedhockey]

Originally Posted by CMPunk

He's going to put up 60 points and stop all the pucks? Impressive, we better keep him

I've let myself down.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I would guess that the thing that would be "off" about him is not the things you talk about (which are fairly immaterial to actually icing a great hockey team), but the Flames management's belief that Hamilton (and certainly Brodie) have been propped up some what by Gio.

Now I'm not saying it is true, but if the Flames really believe that, it would make sense to cash out while his value is highest, especially for a couple of players like Lindholm and Hanafin.

Management is privy to all sorts of information we as fans are not.

Then the flames brass better figure things out quickly because Gio has one maybe two elite level seasons left before he loses a step or two and is the one being "propped up" by whoever his partner is.

The problem with trading Dougie Hamilton now is that you know you will have a big need for a new top defenseman within about 1.5 -3 seasons as Gio's role will decrease by that time and he will not be the main guy carrying water for this team on the back end.

Is it Brodie? Hamonic? Stone? Kulak? Can andersson, valimaki or fox be that guy? If im Tre thats not a risk im willing to take.

So in that respect if you move dougie you pretty much know you're gambling on your prospects turning out to be norris (top 15 in voting) calibre