[Signing] Backlund re-signs. 6 years, AAV $5.35M

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Hmmmm.... All of the key guys involved in this not top half team over the last 3-4 years are all locked up for the next 3-5 years using up 80% of the cap space.

Locking up the key players on a contending team makes a lot of sense.... locking up guys that produce mediocre results .... well that sort of indicates that mediocrity is the end target.

Just because they are locked up doesn't mean the core is. Most of the guys have favorable contracts and if the current roster doesn't work then they could be moved.
I'm also really unclear what you think the alternative is? What would you have the organization do instead? Let quality players walk? Start the re-build again?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

He will be good value now and poor value later. If he was willing to sign for 3 years he'd get way more than that on the open market. The discount now is paid back on the overpayment later.

This is probably win-win. Backing gets guaranteed career earnings, and the flames borrow cap space from he future when they're in win-now mode.

Really how many teams were going to line up to give him a six year deal considerably higher than the Flames after the season he's had to date? I feel the Flames were competing against themselves here as I just don't see other teams valuing Backlund this high.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think the closest comparison is Frans Nielsen who got a very similar deal a couple years ago, and I think Backlund would be younger now than Frans was then.
The Flames weren't competing with themselves. They were competing with the somewhat unknown market and potential of Backlund testing the waters.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Hmmmm.... All of the key guys involved in this not top half team over the last 3-4 years are all locked up for the next 3-5 years using up 80% of the cap space.

Locking up the key players on a contending team makes a lot of sense.... locking up guys that produce mediocre results .... well that sort of indicates that mediocrity is the end target.

LOL... Tkachuk in his 2nd year, part of the core, but not part of your mythical "all locked up mediocre core".

Defense improved, Hamonic playing very well lately. Again, not part of the core you write about.

Do you really think that nothing will change in the next 3-5 years? No improvement from the younger guys? This has been a theme with you before - you fixate on what you think is a static team and berate them.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Really how many teams were going to line up to give him a six year deal considerably higher than the Flames after the season he's had to date? I feel the Flames were competing against themselves here as I just don't see other teams valuing Backlund this high.

Even if what you say is true, so what? What difference does this make in the next four years? Say the Flames signed Backlund for 4 years, 5 million per. What difference does that make to the team? The extra 350 thousand and the lesser term, how does that allow them to contend better in that same time period?

More importantly, even if they did get 4 years 5 million per, would you be happy? I suspect no. You would still complain. What is awkward is that this version of the Flames intended to contend and they are not quite doing it. So it is hard for some fans to be happy with the status quo.

I suspect the pessimism about this deal is not the term or the dollar figure, it's that the Flames do not have a better record than they do, and are making commitments to the same players that are on the ice now. But the problem is that there is no catch all solution. Either this team is going to figure it out or they are going to fall short of expectations. The only thing that could conceivably make a difference is coaching, which is a bit of a dog whistle but is also somewhat true. But personnel wise, the main players are in place. More scoring, a slightly different mix, sure. But the main pieces this current team are built around are here.

This version of the Flames needs Backlund. Subtracting him is not going to make the team better, even if some fans don't think he is good enough. Saving 500 thousand on his cap deal is not going to make a difference to the end result, either. It's one of those things. Backlund is an important player on the team that they can't afford to lose, but they are also not good enough. Letting Backlund walk, or trading him for a lesser return, or even signing him for less does not change the fact that this team has higher expectations than they are currently achieving. And that is infuriating. But they still have to sign Backlund. Because otherwise, it means upgrading more than just the 2nd line centre position, it means trading the current value players in the hope that they can be even better in the future, which is a massive gamble.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by transplant99

This contract has every chance to blow up in the Flames face as it does to be a good value...which is why several people dont particularly like the term. Though, admittedly, its a better gamble to have him on the team than not, and this was the price to make that happen.

Congratulations, you just described every UFA or long term contract in today NHL.

That’s the risk of trying to contend in a cap world.

If you don’t sign contracts that might stink at the end, you don’t contend.

I’m amazed you haven’t figured that out yet.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Lanny_McDonald]

I’m amazed you haven’t figured out how to remove the tapatalk signature yet.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by New Era

I’m amazed you haven’t figured out how to remove the tapatalk signature yet.

I wonder why anyone would care about the Tapatalk signature LOL.

There are bigger problems in the world than that Bud.


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[Anduril]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I wonder why anyone would care about the Tapatalk signature LOL.

There are bigger problems in the world than that Bud.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You'd think but surprisingly it's taken this long for somebody to point it out. It took me all of 5 posts years ago to have an entire thread jump down my throat.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Really how many teams were going to line up to give him a six year deal considerably higher than the Flames after the season he's had to date? I feel the Flames were competing against themselves here as I just don't see other teams valuing Backlund this high.

You keep talking about the ‘year he’s had’ as if he isn’t still around a 50 point elite defensive center? Not much has changed from last year except the shooting percentages of both himself and the players that have been on the ice with him. If his shooting percentage went back to his career average then he’d be ahead of last years points pace.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I wonder why anyone would care about the Tapatalk signature LOL.

There are bigger problems in the world than that Bud.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It was a joke, pal. Of all the things you could wonder about, I would have thought getting rid of that annoying signature would have been on your list.

Sent from my computer using Firefox sarcasm plug-in

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

I think the closest comparison is Frans Nielsen who got a very similar deal a couple years ago, and I think Backlund would be younger now than Frans was then.
The Flames weren't competing with themselves. They were competing with the somewhat unknown market and potential of Backlund testing the waters.

Great example **sarcasm*** ... maybe one of the worst ufa signings ever. Islanders dodged a bullet not being able to re-sign him,. 2 years later the Islanders are in the playoff fight with Barzal as their #2C. Detroit now has a 33 year old 3rd line C making 5.25M for another 4 years and are looking at a good chance in the lottery for the 2nd year in a row, If the Flames want Nielsen they likely could trade Brouwer for him if the Wings kept some salary.

In the UFA bidding war the usual winners are the teams that don't get their guy.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I didn’t comment on whether that deal was good I was responding about whether other teams would have competed for him. And you still haven’t put forth an alternative plan for what the Flames should do instead

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Congratulations, you just described every UFA or long term contract in today NHL.

That’s the risk of trying to contend in a cap world.

If you don’t sign contracts that might stink at the end, you don’t contend.

I’m amazed you haven’t figured that out yet.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Congratulations on repeating what i said.

I'm amazed you finally figured out how to do this.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Great example **sarcasm*** ... maybe one of the worst ufa signings ever. Islanders dodged a bullet not being able to re-sign him,. 2 years later the Islanders are in the playoff fight with Barzal as their #2C. Detroit now has a 33 year old 3rd line C making 5.25M for another 4 years and are looking at a good chance in the lottery for the 2nd year in a row, If the Flames want Nielsen they likely could trade Brouwer for him if the Wings kept some salary.

In the UFA bidding war the usual winners are the teams that don't get their guy.

You are ignoring the fact that almost all decent pending UFAs are re-signed. So your actual comparable are similar players who were re-signed rather than being released to explore free agency.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

You keep talking about the ‘year he’s had’ as if he isn’t still around a 50 point elite defensive center? Not much has changed from last year except the shooting percentages of both himself and the players that have been on the ice with him. If his shooting percentage went back to his career average then he’d be ahead of last years points pace.

If's don't count. What if the Flames had a better home record? They don't so it doesn't matter. He's going to be slotted in a 3rd line spot in the coming years and his production will drop accordingly the moment he's not playing with Tkachuk. There's no question that signing Backlund was plan B for Treliving as he was trying to improve on the position by acquiring Turris or Duchene. Those didn't materialize so he was kind of in a situation where he kind of had to keep him but it's pretty obvious the GM realizes that this position that needed to be upgraded.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

I didn’t comment on whether that deal was good I was responding about whether other teams would have competed for him. And you still haven’t put forth an alternative plan for what the Flames should do instead

Draft players and develop them. Don't sign everyone that has a pretty good season to a 6-year deal. Never ever trade away your high draft picks.

Don't "build" through UFA's. Big contract UFA's should only be signed if they really are the missing piece that will get you to a point that you can make the playoffs without them and they are going to win you some playoff series.

Does signing UFA Backlund mean the Flames are pretty sure they will win a playoff series this year? Even then they did not need to sign him now. Hard to imagine Backlund having a playoffs that would have upped his value as a UFA.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Draft players and develop them. Don't sign everyone that has a pretty good season to a 6-year deal. Never ever trade away your high draft picks.

Don't "build" through UFA's. Big contract UFA's should only be signed if they really are the missing piece that will get you to a point that you can make the playoffs without them and they are going to win you some playoff series.

Does signing UFA Backlund mean the Flames are pretty sure they will win a playoff series this year? Even then they did not need to sign him now. Hard to imagine Backlund having a playoffs that would have upped his value as a UFA.

So we should draft a player like Backlund, develop him like Backlund but don't sign them after we've done all that.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If's don't count. What if the Flames had a better home record? They don't so it doesn't matter. He's going to be slotted in a 3rd line spot in the coming years and his production will drop accordingly the moment he's not playing with Tkachuk. There's no question that signing Backlund was plan B for Treliving as he was trying to improve on the position by acquiring Turris or Duchene. Those didn't materialize so he was kind of in a situation where he kind of had to keep him but it's pretty obvious the GM realizes that this position that needed to be upgraded.

IF that is at all true then Burke and Trevling need to be fired.

An older better paid Backlund is not going to be an upgrade on the current Backlund just the same as this year's Backlund is not an upgrade on last year's Backlund.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Anduril

So we should draft a player like Backlund, develop him like Backlund but don't sign them after we've done all that.

You have to step back and answer the questions:

"What have we as a team accomplished with Backlund playing an important role?" Ans: Not a whole heck of a lot

"What do we expect to accomplish as a team with Backlund going forward?"


I am afraid that the answer to that is will remain in the middle third of the league and compete for a playoff spot and maybe have our goalie become 2004 playoff Kipper.