Seems like a bit of a stretch to attribute lower black numbers to voter suppression. The more likely scenario is blacks just weren't as enthusiastic supporting Hillary as they were supporting the first black POTUS in history.
I agree with that. It's bound to be a little from column A and a little from column B, but it certainly seems plausible that black voters would be less energized this time around just because of the options available. Of course, there's no way to know how much of the depressed turnout to attribute to either factor. So, narratives abound.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
True, but my point was, they both rose to power by finding support, using the commoners anger of not getting their fair share(and losing what they had), and directing it towards a common identifiable group(s).
Bush just invaded countries, anyone can do that.
That's pretty much the common message by all candidates in all democratic elections right now. Stirring up class warfare is the name of the game.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
I never got the claims of racism. He said more vetting of Muslims, as in let people in if they can pass a screening. How is that the same as Hitler blaming all their issues on hidden Jewish influence? Was there a racist tirade I missed somewhere or does just saying the word Muslim make you racist now?
Didn't he call for a complete closure of the border for all/any Muslim?
Didn't he refer to Mexicans as rapists?
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Yeah Duffman I'm pretty sure you also just described Bernie Sanders's campaign...
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Who's going to be the new Press Secretary - Sean Hannity or Billy Bush?
Milo Yiannopoulos.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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Seems like a bit of a stretch to attribute lower black numbers to voter suppression. The more likely scenario is blacks just weren't as enthusiastic supporting Hillary as they were supporting the first black POTUS in history. They voted Dem 92% in 2012, which is a ridiculous proportion with a pretty good turnout rate as well, it would be pretty unrealistic to expect that to be repeatable for future elections.
It's too bad because more urban black votes probably would have won Michigan, and maybe Pennsylvania and Florida too
That's what I don't understand, did they think that Trump's leadership will somehow improve the relationship with law enforcement??
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Seems like a bit of a stretch to attribute lower black numbers to voter suppression. The more likely scenario is blacks just weren't as enthusiastic supporting Hillary as they were supporting the first black POTUS in history. They voted Dem 92% in 2012, which is a ridiculous proportion with a pretty good turnout rate as well, it would be pretty unrealistic to expect that to be repeatable for future elections.
It's too bad because more urban black votes probably would have won Michigan, and maybe Pennsylvania and Florida too
Isn't it a shame that we even have to speculate on the impact of voter suppression based on skin colour?
Audience is dead quiet during this. He's pretty much flabbergasted.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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That's pretty much the common message by all candidates in all democratic elections right now. Stirring up class warfare is the name of the game.
Sometimes, but not always. Trump defied this technique to perfection.
The problem with class warfare is that you alienate a huge part of the population. You can go after the middle and lower class, but they might feel they're a higher class than they are... or that if they do move up you wouldn't help them.
Trump played to the worker, rich and poor. This wasn't a victory in politics of class warfare, this was simply exploiting an economic slump. He was pitting the one thing everyone can relate to: being American, against everyone else.
Trump won because he didn't pit classes against each other. His whole platform was "America," and he had policies designed for the rich while telling the poor that they'll benefit too.
As noted, Trump's victory was rooted in identity politics.
And no, Trump did not win because people pointed out how Trump was running a campaign that catered to racism, bigotry and sexism. Trump won because - exactly as happened in the UK with Brexit - we all underestimated how pervasive racism, bigotry and sexism still is.
The leave vote in the UK and the Trump vote in the US were both led by two groups: the elderly - who are largely conservative to begin with, who generally wish things were like they used to be and will be dead before the fallout is felt anyway - and the uneducated. Trump outperformed in some other key areas (educated whites being one, I believe), but it was those two groups that really paved the way to victory.
I agree with you that everyone underestimated just how pervasive Trump's views were and how many closet Trumpists there are.
Not sure I agree that the results were due largely to uneducated whites though. Didn't the exit polls show over 75% of whites (period) voted for Trump?
Similar to how we underestimated how pervasive racism and sexist beliefs are, it may also be a time to accept that the majority of whites in the US still hold dangerous views which align with Trump no?
What I find hilarious is the people saying they voted for him because he's going to change Washington or is an outsider. You naïve children, what makes you think a billionaire businessman is going to act against his own self interests and enact any sort of change? The rubes that bought into his narrative are never going to see their reward coming. That's how a con works, you don't know it's a con before it's too late.
I think it's worth asking: Is it really a con when the marks are in on it? Trump won, but even exit polling showed he had worse favorabilities than Hillary did. I think a lot of people knew Trump was grifting, but didn't care because screwing the system and the elites was more important.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
Didn't he call for a complete closure of the border for all/any Muslim?
Didn't he refer to Mexicans as rapists?
I thought it was closure as in closed to those that can't pass a test.
To be racist against Mexicans doesn't the definition have to be a bias against the entire race? This is the quote I found
"When do we beat Mexico at the border? They’re laughing at us, at our stupidity. And now they are beating us economically. They are not our friend, believe me. But they’re killing us economically.
The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems.
Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people"
Seems like the opposite of racism, I'm not in support of Trump but people claim he's a racist as if it's undeniable fact but I haven't seen it.
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Isn't it a shame that we even have to speculate on the impact of voter suppression based on skin colour?
I mean...I know you posted an article outlining some methods taken since the last election to toughen up ID standards at the voting booth, but that seems pretty implicit to link it back to overwhelmingly effecting blacks. Was it that they wanted people to have two sets of ID and that would alienate some lower class people (blacks) from voting? I could see it, but when you have blacks energized to vote because of Obama the last two elections, to the degree that they had the second highest turnout rate only to college educated whites in 2012, you can't be surprised when those numbers dip after that energizing factor is gone.
On 538's site they have an infographic from the 2012 election where you can fiddle with turnout and support numbers from a bunch of different demo's. Moving the black support numbers to more average values swings the result to the republicans, which is what we just saw happen last night.
I heard a very interesting statement last night. That in raw numbers Trump attracted the same amount of votes as Romney.
But Clinton drew over 5,000,000 less than what voted for Obama.
I think a lot of sanders democrats just didn't vote.
And I think some of them just switched to Trump. Bernie also wanted a protectionist economy and some of the more lefts with libertarian tendencies went the other protectionist.
But I think you are right.
Republicans voted how you would expect based on party lines and Democrats were a net negative due to being uninspiring. I really don't see any big mysteries. I would be willing to bet that the same people who voted for Trump likely would have voted for Cruz, Kasich, Romney, etc... We heard a louder fringe voice this year because that is what people wanted to tune into (and the Clinton supporters also tried to show it more).
I do think Trump is going to be a disaster though, but this was more of a Dem loss than a Rep win.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
That's what I don't understand, did they think that Trump's leadership will somehow improve the relationship with law enforcement??
If they weren't protected and cared about under a black, democratic president; why would they feel any option would help them?
A lot of these people are likely too disenfranchised to expect any positive result from their votes now.
Black Americans only seem to matter when someone needs their vote, I'd be tired of that too.
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