What are your thoughts on Glen Gulutzan's system?

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Gif retired.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Armchair Quarterback

When we win, I like it.

When we lose, I don't like it.

I know this was said jokingly, but it's actually kind of how I feel. This system is pretty boring. There aren't a lot of 'wow' moments in any given game, and not even close to the wow factor games had under Hartley. We probably shouldn't be surprised that we're getting Dave Tippett style coaching, since Treliving came up in the Phoenix system.

The most important thing is winning though, so when the Flames win, the system seems good. Grinding out boring wins is a pretty legit NHL strategy. When they lose though, they lose and its boring to watch too.

Under Hartley the Flames could be down by two goals with five minutes to go and it still felt like they could win. Under Gulutzan if they're down by two in the first period it feels like its over. It doesn't feel like the system has any flex to allow for a big comeback.

As others have said though, there is a long way to go and hopefully there will be more adaptations and evolutions to come.

[EVERLAST]

Glen must have allot of patience and good on him as they are turning a corner.

We play better on the road so good place for this to happen.

If we can cut out all the cute showoff stuff at home and be disciplined well be alright.

This team doing well on this road team begins our ascent I think. If we can stay healthy I think that's our only obsticle....with Johnny sidelined everyone is contributing as a team instead of a bunch of passengers watching

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

I know this was said jokingly, but it's actually kind of how I feel. This system is pretty boring. There aren't a lot of 'wow' moments in any given game, and not even close to the wow factor games had under Hartley. We probably shouldn't be surprised that we're getting Dave Tippett style coaching, since Treliving came up in the Phoenix system.

The most important thing is winning though, so when the Flames win, the system seems good. Grinding out boring wins is a pretty legit NHL strategy. When they lose though, they lose and its boring to watch too.

Under Hartley the Flames could be down by two goals with five minutes to go and it still felt like they could win. Under Gulutzan if they're down by two in the first period it feels like its over. It doesn't feel like the system has any flex to allow for a big comeback.

As others have said though, there is a long way to go and hopefully there will be more adaptations and evolutions to come.

Hopefully Johnny's return can add an element of creativity.

[genetic_phreek]

After a quarter of the season I don't like his system having the centre so deep on the defensive zone. It bunches up three players down low and takes away one player on the breakout essentialy making a two man rush into the offensive zone and asking the centre to catch up ice. It's not an efficient system making the centre work hard and not smart.

I think the product of this is why our goals are down from previous years because we don't have the same transition game. It reminds me of Brent Sutter years where we squeak out wins. I just don't see this sustainable.

[Stay Golden]

Just in case anyone thinks Gulutzan is doing well for the Flames.
25 GP 10 - 13 - 2
11th the in West
PP Last in NHL
PK Second last in the NHL.
GF 17th
GA Last in NHL
GAA even strength 5th Worst in the NHL
Penalties per game 6th Highest in NHL.

I am pretty confident Gulutzan would not be hired by any other team as a HC for years if Treliving does fire him.

[Flash Walken]

Flames Goals Against

Last 10 Games under Hartley: 37
First 10 Games under Gulutzan: 33
Last 10 Games Under Gulutzan: 22

[Clarkey]

Realistically, has this team looked dangerous for more than a few shifts in a row all season? This coach/system sucks! Dude's from Saskatchewan, he should know better and keep it simple.

[ComixZone]

For giggles, I compared the first 25 games of this season vs. last season:

Calgary Flames 15/16 Vs. 16/17 – Through 25 Games

Team Save %:
2015/2016: .879
2016/2017: .895

Team Shooting %:
2015/2016: 8.2%
2016/2017: 7.9%

Goals For:
2015/2016: 59
2016/2017: 56

Goals Against:
2015/2016: 89
2016/2017: 76

Shots Against:
2015/2016: 738
2016/2017: 727

Shots For:
2015/2016: 720
2016/2017: 708

...and found out, that despite having "better" goalies, and allowing 13 less goals (while scoring 3 less), we're effectively in the exact same spot.

10-13-2 Vs. 9-14-2

So, yeah...so much for the improvements over the summer. We're spending more money on players, we "improved" the coaching staff...and we've pretty much ended up back exactly where we started.

[calgarygeologist]

Flames Goals For

Last 10 Games under Hartley: 31
First 10 Games under Gulutzan: 30
Last 10 Games Under Gulutzan: 19

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

Hopefully Johnny's return can add an element of creativity.

I think there will be magic when he comes back because he will be wearing the whizard gloves.....

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

For giggles, I compared the first 25 games of this season vs. last season:

Calgary Flames 15/16 Vs. 16/17 – Through 25 Games

Team Save %:
2015/2016: .879
2016/2017: .895

Team Shooting %:
2015/2016: 8.2%
2016/2017: 7.9%

Goals For:
2015/2016: 59
2016/2017: 56

Goals Against:
2015/2016: 89
2016/2017: 76

Shots Against:
2015/2016: 738
2016/2017: 727

Shots For:
2015/2016: 720
2016/2017: 708

...and found out, that despite having "better" goalies, and allowing 13 less goals (while scoring 3 less), we're effectively in the exact same spot.

10-13-2 Vs. 9-14-2

So, yeah...so much for the improvements over the summer. We're spending more money on players, we "improved" the coaching staff...and we've pretty much ended up back exactly where we started.

Looking forward to another 6th overall pick...

[Flash Walken]

The Flames don't have the skill to play uptempo hockey, which is why they need to grind it out to establish a base and add scoring as the rebuild progresses. Under Hartley, they didn't have the skill to play uptempo hockey either but they did it anyway and mostly got blown out as a result.

If 6th overall gets you Mathew Tkachuk and Sean Monahan then I too welcome another 6th overall pick.

Where did everyone think this team would be after attempting to build a contender basically from scratch?

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The Flames don't have the skill to play uptempo hockey, which is why they need to grind it out to establish a base and add scoring as the rebuild progresses. Under Hartley, they didn't have the skill to play uptempo hockey either but they did it anyway and mostly got blown out as a result.

If 6th overall gets you Mathew Tkachuk and Sean Monahan then I too welcome another 6th overall pick.

Where did everyone think this team would be after attempting to build a contender basically from scratch?

In this draft it maybe gets you Zibanejad.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The Flames don't have the skill to play uptempo hockey, which is why they need to grind it out to establish a base and add scoring as the rebuild progresses. Under Hartley, they didn't have the skill to play uptempo hockey either but they did it anyway and mostly got blown out as a result.

If 6th overall gets you Mathew Tkachuk and Sean Monahan then I too welcome another 6th overall pick.

Where did everyone think this team would be after attempting to build a contender basically from scratch?

Almost straight from the Brent Sutter book of quotes ("This team can't score off the rush"). What a bunch of nonsense. This team has plenty of offensive skill and speed. How much offensive talent do they need to collect to be considered a skilled team? 2 more top 10 picks?

I know there have been positive signs but the team needs to find offense. These 2 goal outputs won't be something that sustains winning long term. I still feel like they are lost on the offensive side of the game. Maybe it will come after they've nailed down this defensive structure but they've looked offensively challenged all season.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Almost straight from the Brent Sutter book of quotes ("This team can't score off the rush"). What a bunch of nonsense. This team has plenty of offensive skill and speed. How much offensive talent do they need to collect to be considered a skilled team? 2 more top 10 picks?

I know there have been positive signs but the team needs to find offense. These 2 goal outputs won't be something that sustains winning long term. I still feel like they are lost on the offensive side of the game. Maybe it will come after they've nailed down this defensive structure but they've looked offensively challenged all season.

Where are all these 20 and 30 goal scorers the flames have? 40 goal scorers? 50?

Last year, the offensive juggernaut everyone is pining for, had four 20 goal scorers, 1 of them was a defender(!) (gio) and one who did it for the first time in 6 seasons (Backlund).

Where are all these high skill players? Colborne scored more goals than Bennett last year and he was replaced with...Chiasson?

This is an incredible example of the disconnect from reality a lot of posters on this board suffer from.

Who are all these high skilled, high scoring players the flames have who are being stifled under this task master Gulutzan?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Where are all these 20 and 30 goal scorers the flames have? 40 goal scorers? 50?

Last year, the offensive juggernaut everyone is pining for, had four 20 goal scorers, 1 of them was a defender(!) (gio) and one who did it for the first time in 6 seasons (Backlund).

Where are all these high skill players? Colborne scored more goals than Bennett last year and he was replaced with...Chiasson?

This is an incredible example of the disconnect from reality a lot of posters on this board suffer from.

Who are all these high skilled, high scoring players the flames have who are being stifled under this task master Gulutzan?

Gaudreau:
15/16: 0.987 PPG
16/17: 0.647 PPG

Monahan:
15/16: 0.778 PPG
16/17: 0.360 PPG

Brodie:
15/16: 0.643 PPG
16/17: 0.280 PPG

Giordano:
15/16: 0.683 PPG
16/17: 0.360 PPG

Those are some significant drops for 4 of our top contributors.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Where are all these 20 and 30 goal scorers the flames have? 40 goal scorers? 50?

Last year, the offensive juggernaut everyone is pining for, had four 20 goal scorers, 1 of them was a defender(!) (gio) and one who did it for the first time in 6 seasons (Backlund).

Where are all these high skill players? Colborne scored more goals than Bennett last year and he was replaced with...Chiasson?

This is an incredible example of the disconnect from reality a lot of posters on this board suffer from.

Who are all these high skilled, high scoring players the flames have who are being stifled under this task master Gulutzan?

You don't think guys like Monahan, Gaudreau and Gio to name a few are capable of way more offensive output? Brodie? Bennett?

Should young players who score 20 stay at 20? Or is there usually some progression as their careers advance.

If the team is as unskilled as you suggest the rebuild thus far is an absolute failure. The whole point is to be drafting and developing players who can put up numbers. And they can. We've seen it.

[bigrangy]

I would argue that the offense at 5v5 has definitely dried up a bit, but the main culprit for the low point totals is the absolutely garbage powerplay. 8 goals in 25 games will suppress everyone's numbers. This team has improved defensively, and it has been worth the tradeoff of reduced offensive chances imo. I think a fundamentally sound system is being implemented here.

Also, I think the Flames really have a distinct lack of play-driving forwards, especially top-6 quality ones. The Flames have got decent finishers (Monahan, Brouwer), but there aren't enough guys that can move the play up the ice. The defense and better than average and have to be more active in this but I don't think GG thinks that aggressive D will work in his system. I think that he should adjust to accommodate for them, since they are the Flames' greatest strength right now.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Gaudreau:
15/16: 0.987 PPG
16/17: 0.647 PPG

Monahan:
15/16: 0.778 PPG
16/17: 0.360 PPG

Brodie:
15/16: 0.643 PPG
16/17: 0.280 PPG

Giordano:
15/16: 0.683 PPG
16/17: 0.360 PPG

Those are some significant drops for 4 of our top contributors.

And that should tell you enough about the GG system.

A minor drop off would be expected in order to tighten up the defensive game, but not one this significant. We're talking less than half of their previous production.

TJ and Hamilton are sort of picking things up in that regard, but gosh damn our offence has been utterly neutered.