At least 84 killed in terrorist attack in Nice, France

[Fuzz]

It would be a big step, but they could admit that there are parts of their book and religion that directly incite these actions, and that maybe it isn't all the infallible word of god they hold it to be, and take steps to removing the parts that are bad. But that will not likely happen because they are to indoctrinated to look at it from that point of view.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by GGG

How does a moderate Muslim do that?

The Crazy Baptists in Florida still call themselves Christians despite I would argue most moderate Christians thinking their beliefs were terrible. How would a moderate Christian stop the Westboro Baptists?

"If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire... The A-Team."

[Essentially a domestic terrorist group by post 2001 definitions]

[T@T]

Originally Posted by GGG

How does a moderate Muslim do that?

The Crazy Baptists in Florida still call themselves Christians despite I would argue most moderate Christians thinking there beliefs were terrible. How would a moderate Christian stop the Westboro Baptists.

Westboro Baptists have under a 100 members, they aren't terrorists as they just spew hate speech in hopes to extort money.

Muslims that practice Sharia law and Wahhabism number in the millions.If moderate Muslims treated Sharia law and Wahhabism as "crazy" it would be a start, another good start would be the banning of the burqa.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by T@T

Westboro Baptists have under a 100 members, they aren't terrorists as they just spew hate speech in hopes to extort money.

Muslims that practice Sharia law and Wahhabism number in the millions.If moderate Muslims treated Sharia law and Wahhabism as "crazy" it would be a start, another good start would be the banning of the burqa.

How does the moderate Muslim ban the bhurka?

I mean regular 30 year old guy with his film who happens to be a Muslim. I agree that Muslim leadership should take more action. But what should random follower do specificly.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

I mean regular 30 year old guy with his film who happens to be a Muslim. I agree that Muslim leadership should take more action. But what should random follower do specificly.

You could say the same of a random non-racist white person or a random non-misogynist man. And yet it's common to hear that society needs to change or take responsibility for these attitudes. So which communities/demographics are collectively responsible for their behaviour and which aren't?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You could say the same of a random non-racist white person or a random non-misogynist man. And yet it's common to hear that society needs to change or take responsibility for these attitudes. So which communities/demographics are collectively responsible for their behaviour and which aren't?

In general I would argue in those cases as well that the average Man can do nothing on rape culture outside of his small social circle and the same with the average white person on dealing with racism

So the best we can hope for from these people is to not be fanatics and call out fanaticism when they see it. And it sounds like the Muslim community is one of the primary sources of information for people who are becoming radicalized. So saying moderate Muslims should ban the bhurka is a ridiculous statement. Sayin a moderate Muslim should support the people around them who choose not to is reasonable.

Just being not an extremist should be enough.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

Just being not an extremist should be enough.

Yes, but what's an extremist? The people who carry out terrorists attacks are a tiny minority. But the people who say it's okay to kill apostates or those who insult Allah represent a much larger proportion of Muslims. 27 per cent of British Muslims polled (which represents around 700K people) said they sympathized with the gunmen who killed the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists. 11 per cent said the Charlie Hebdo staff deserved to die.

So does the UK have 260,000 Muslim extremists? 700,000?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yes, but what's an extremist? The people who carry out terrorists attacks are a tiny minority. But the people who say it's okay to kill apostates or those who insult Allah represent a much larger proportion of Muslims. 27 per cent of British Muslims polled (which represents around 700K people) said they sympathized with the gunmen who killed the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists. 11 per cent said the Charlie Hebdo staff deserved to die.

So does the UK have 260,000 Muslim extremists? 700,000?

Yes, I would classify those people as extremists.

And I'm not arguing that extremism isn't a problem. But the 70%, the 2 million, don't really have much power to enact short term change. All the moderates can do is not be extremists. And have their behaviours change others.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by GGG

All the moderates can do is not be extremists.

They can be reformers. They can actively try to change attitudes within their communities. They can support other reformers abroad. I dunno, seems like they can take positive action to varying degrees if they want to.

[Buster]

Less than 1% of the Muslim population in most Islamic countries support any kind of LGBT rights.

Where are the moderates and reformers again?

[GGG]

Nm

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Buster

Less than 1% of the Muslim population in most Islamic countries support any kind of LGBT rights.

Where are the moderates and reformers again?

The US just passed their law a year ago...

How long did it take for the majority in North America to support LGBT rights?

Changing mass opinions takes time.

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by Buster

Less than 1% of the Muslim population in most Islamic countries support any kind of LGBT rights.

Where are the moderates and reformers again?

What is a moderate muslim? What is moderate islam?

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

What is a moderate muslim? What is moderate islam?

Moderate Muslims are those that are living their lives just like you and me.

They wake up, go to work, come home to their families, go on vacations, eat at restaurants and go to the movies.

You don't ever hear about them because they are normal people. When are normal people ever on the news?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

They can be reformers. They can actively try to change attitudes within their communities. They can support other reformers abroad. I dunno, seems like they can take positive action to varying degrees if they want to.

So how much action are you taking on racism in Canada against natives and Violence against women in Canada. I mean you can take positive action if you want to.

And annecdotely moderate Muslims do report people they feel are becoming radicalized. What specific actions should they be doing in their community. Not everyone wants to protest in the streets.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

Moderate Muslims are those that are living their lives just like you and me.

They wake up, go to work, come home to their families, go on vacations, eat at restaurants and go to the movies.

You don't ever hear about them because they are normal people. When are normal people ever on the news?

By your definition of moderate, are they pro-gay rights?

If so, they aren't the majority. If not, I'd only consider them to be moderate in comparison to the extremists.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by GGG

Yes, I would classify those people as extremists.

And I'm not arguing that extremism isn't a problem. But the 70%, the 2 million, don't really have much power to enact short term change. All the moderates can do is not be extremists. And have their behaviours change others.

So in other words we can expect moderates to do this:



I don't know how many times I have seen Muslim protests around the world marching in the thousands burning flags screaming "death to America" for reasons such as allowing a former Muslim leader to have gallbladder surgery in the U.S. Are all those Iranians extremists? the answer is NO, they followed a leaders(Khamenei) wishes. when 9-11 happened he took to the podium and suspended any marches/protests out of respect. If that can be done than it should be done for positive reasons.

A good start would be for the moderates to put pressure on their Iman's to get every area mosque to protest extreme Islam and every crazy Islamic law that doesn't have basic human rights.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Buster

Less than 1% of the Muslim population in most Islamic countries support any kind of LGBT rights.

Where are the moderates and reformers again?

Being called racists, bigots and all kinds of names on twitter and social media by the regressive left and Muslims.

I'm friends with many outspoken former and current Muslims who speak harshly against what is happening in the Islamic world, and because some on the right love these guys the left thinks they must oppose them and do all kinds of brain gymnastics to be apologetics for what is happening all over Islam.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

Moderate Muslims are those that are living their lives just like you and me.

They wake up, go to work, come home to their families, go on vacations, eat at restaurants and go to the movies.

You don't ever hear about them because they are normal people. When are normal people ever on the news?

But if they were living like me, they would be criticizing the misogyny and homophobia that Islam brings into the world. So, I guess they aren't living like me, after all.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Buster

But if they were living like me, they would be criticizing the misogyny and homophobia that Islam brings into the world. So, I guess they aren't living like me, after all.

And what avenues outside of a message board are you doing this I assume you are having discussions with Iman's and organizing protests; I mean that is what people are suggesting moderate Muslims in Canada do here.

To me this is slacktivism at its finest. I oppose something and talk about it online and others should be taking action.</P>