NHL to formally start expansion process (only LV and QC submit applications)

[Strange Brew]

An expansion draft would come in handy for the Flames right now.

[Hockey Fan #751]

I think that all the prior expansion rules will be tossed out the window. Hard to tell what it would look like. The landscape has changed a lot in the last 15 years.

I wonder if there will be an effort to make the expansion teams more competitive off the hop. They're paying $500 million this time around, not $75 million.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

I think that all the prior expansion rules will be tossed out the window. Hard to tell what it would look like. The landscape has changed a lot in the last 15 years.

I wonder if there will be an effort to make the expansion teams more competitive off the hop. They're paying $500 million this time around, not $75 million.

Good point, I hope not. I want another team in the Pacific to beat up on

[Finger Cookin]

Hopefully both NTCs and NMCs are disregarded for the expansion draft. It's not like an expansion draft is a routine event with annual transactions taking place. Having said that, I could see NMCs being enforced.

The expansion teams will have to plug some gaps via FA, or take bad deals and retain salary in trades to get more useful pieces back.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Man it would suck to be a fan of an expansion team for the first few years I think.

Florida's only cup apperence was in the first few years. The Blues founded in 1967 appeared in the 68,69 and 1970 cup finals. Hell, even your teenage dirt bag squad up north had lots of success in the first few years.

The ones that seem to have crap success are the expansion teams that are not in a traditional hockey market.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Florida's only cup apperence was in the first few years. The Blues founded in 1967 appeared in the 68,69 and 1970 cup finals. Hell, even your teenage dirt bag squad up north had lots of success in the first few years.

The ones that seem to have crap success are the expansion teams that are not in a traditional hockey market.

What, Florida is a traditional hockey market now? Your conclusion does not appear to follow from your premises.

The Blues were a special case, which will never recur. Six expansion teams were added at once, all in their own division. An expansion team was guaranteed to be in the Cup finals those three years.

As for the Teenage Dirt Bag Squad, they had an advantage that no other expansion team has ever had: they brought the greatest player in the game into the league with them.

Historically, it has been far more common for expansion teams to suck hard for several years before improving through the draft.

[Vulcan]

If well run expansion teams can quickly become competitive. Even our Flames when in Atlanta only spent 2 years below .500 before putting in consistent winning records. They can't blame Atlanta's poor attendance on the team performance.

http://www.hockeydb.com/stte/atlanta-flames-4680.html

The Islanders also became competitive after 2 seasons.

http://www.hockeydb.com/stte/new-yor...ders-7085.html

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Florida's only cup apperence was in the first few years. The Blues founded in 1967 appeared in the 68,69 and 1970 cup finals. Hell, even your teenage dirt bag squad up north had lots of success in the first few years.

The ones that seem to have crap success are the expansion teams that are not in a traditional hockey market.

The Blues were in a division of all expansion teams. One of them was guaranteed to get to the SC Finals. Edmonton came in with 99. Only Fla is in any way comparable.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

I think that all the prior expansion rules will be tossed out the window. Hard to tell what it would look like. The landscape has changed a lot in the last 15 years.

I wonder if there will be an effort to make the expansion teams more competitive off the hop. They're paying $500 million this time around, not $75 million.

The existing teams want to collect the money from the expansion teams, but they really don't have any incentive to help make those teams any good, especially if it's at their own expense. The expansion teams also don't really have much leverage in dictating the terms of expansion.

[Vulcan]

I look at the Las Vegas application as a slam dunk and if they turn down QC at the same time, that will be a kick in the you know where. In all areas Quebec City has qualified for an expansion team and has shown that they are one of two cities that are ready.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

The Blues were in a division of all expansion teams. One of them was guaranteed to get to the SC Finals. Edmonton came in with 99. Only Fla is in any way comparable.

Even Florida kind of struck gold by managing to pick up Vanbiesbrouck as an expansion team. He was great for them.

[Trailer Fire]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Even Florida kind of struck gold by managing to pick up Vanbiesbrouck as an expansion team. He was great for them.

Not to mention Mellanby from Edmonton.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

Not to mention Mellanby from Edmonton.

or their captain Skrudland who we foolishly left unprotected.

[hwy19man]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

The Blues were in a division of all expansion teams. One of them was guaranteed to get to the SC Finals. Edmonton came in with 99. Only Fla is in any way comparable.

The Oilers and the three other WHA teams were not classified as expansion teams.

[CroFlames]

At first, I was pretty darned worried about an expansion draft. But now, not so much.

Obviously we don't know the rules of the new expansion draft, but it's probably not going to be drastically different than the last couple.

I'd be willing to expose guys like Smid, Engo (although personally I wouldn't want to see him go despite the apparent hate on for him on CP), Raymond, Bollig, Stajan, Hiller & Ramo.

Admittedly, I was a Stajan hater before, but I've really grown fond of him as a leader and a 4th line center. He's dependable. But expendable.

I think the Flames will do OK in an expansion draft since we have great depth, although I don't love the idea of losing players for nothing. But the owners probably love that extra $33.3 million in pocket change.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I think the Flames will do OK in an expansion draft since we have great depth, although I don't love the idea of losing players for nothing.

It's not as bad when you remember that other teams would be losing players too.

[sureLoss]

In the previous expansion drafts, teams would give the expansion teams draft picks to not select players they couldn't protect.

Could be an interesting dynamic with the increasing importance of the draft to team building.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

If well run expansion teams can quickly become competitive. Even our Flames when in Atlanta only spent 2 years below .500 before putting in consistent winning records. They can't blame Atlanta's poor attendance on the team performance.

http://www.hockeydb.com/stte/atlanta-flames-4680.html

The Islanders also became competitive after 2 seasons.

http://www.hockeydb.com/stte/new-yor...ders-7085.html

On the other hand, in the following expansion, the Washington Capitals and Kansas City Scouts sucked for years and years. (It didn't help that the talent pool had been severely depleted by the WHA.) Each case is different.

This time around, contrary to what getbak said above, the NHL actually does have a pretty powerful incentive to give the new expansion teams halfway decent rosters: they need to give some kind of value for all that money. The fact that only two ownership groups even submitted applications tells you the price tag is scaring off bids.

Suppose they charge $500 million for a franchise, and the new club turns out like the '74 Scouts or '92 Senators. The streets of Edmonton will be lined with palm trees before they find another sucker willing to pony up that kind of money again.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

In the previous expansion drafts, teams would give the expansion teams draft picks to not select players they couldn't protect.

Could be an interesting dynamic with the increasing importance of the draft to team building.

Or teams trading assets to other teams for players that they could use as unprotected fodder. I seem to recall the Flames acquiring Filip Kuba from Florida for that purpose and then left him unprotected for Minnesota to select in the expansion draft. It kind of bit us in the end as he turned out to be a decent player on the Wild for a few years.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by hwy19man

The Oilers and the three other WHA teams were not classified as expansion teams.

That's technically true, but let's admit it: they were expansion teams. The WHA clubs were stripped of most of their best players, then restocked with an expansion draft. It was even formally called an expansion draft. What's the purpose of an expansion draft, if not to stock expansion teams?