Billionaire Oilers owner Katz gave $430,000 to Alberta PCs

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I skim through this thread, and I all I think is...

Wildrose fanbois.

Funny...all i think of is a premier is is either completely incompetant at realizing where her backing is coming from, or a Premier whi is flat out lying to everyone including yourself.

No idea why wildrose would have anything to do with anything at this point, though that has become tactiic 1 for PC supporters when it comes to anything questioned about the governing party to make it all 'what would the WRa do". Its really quite pitiful.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Funny...all i think of is a premier is is either completely incompetant at realizing where her backing is coming from, or a Premier whi is flat out lying to everyone including yourself.

No idea why wildrose would have anything to do with anything at this point, though that has become tactiic 1 for PC supporters when it comes to anything questioned about the governing party to make it all 'what would the WRa do". Its really quite pitiful.

Thats funny. I'm one of the foremost criticizers of the Wildrose on this board and I don't recall seeing that sentiment in this thread?

What is here is a group of Wildrose supporters talking about this as though its a partisan issue. Unfortunately, when you get right down to it though, its a systemic issue. The rules allow for this kind of thing, whether its the PCs, Wildrose or any other party.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I skim through this thread, and I all I think is...

Wildrose fanbois.

You throwing around the term fanboy to anyone is awfully iRonic.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Slava

Thats funny. I'm one of the foremost criticizers of the Wildrose on this board and I don't recall seeing that sentiment in this thread?

What is here is a group of Wildrose supporters talking about this as though its a partisan issue. Unfortunately, when you get right down to it though, its a systemic issue. The rules allow for this kind of thing, whether its the PCs, Wildrose or any other party.

Do they really? Or is it more a case of pounding that square peg until it eventually fits into the round hole? ... and hoping nobody will notice.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Do they really? Or is it more a case of pounding that square peg until it eventually fits into the round hole? ... and hoping nobody will notice.

The rules are not strict enough and do not provide strong enough definitions. The fact that a guy can cut a cheque for $430k and has a way that it fits the current rules should prove that point, regardless of what party it was for.

[Jacks]

I have no idea why you are constantly defending Redford Slava., not just in this thread. Do you really think this whole situation is okay?

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Slava

The rules are not strict enough and do not provide strong enough definitions. The fact that a guy can cut a cheque for $430k and has a way that it fits the current rules should prove that point, regardless of what party it was for.

I don't think it's clear if it's within the rules. Doesn't the money have to come from the bank account of the person donating it. easy enough to manipulate husband/wife... but when you start supplying names of employees and family members. It would be nice to see the results of the probe, but thanks to the Alberta government, releasing the results is prohibited. I bet once it's all said and done and off the front burner, Redford proclaims she wanted to release the results but she was prohibited from doing so.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I have no idea why you are constantly defending Redford Slava., not just in this thread. Do you really think this whole situation is okay?

Which part gave you that implication? The part where I said I didn't like these arrangements or the part where I said it shows everything thats wrong with the electoral finance laws?

The difference is I don't think that it's a partisan issue. I would think that the party is irrelevant because it sure looks like undue influence and conflict of interest to me. That has nothing to do with the PCs though; any party could fall into this because if that donation is attributable to multiple people (even though they're all connected!) its within the rules. To me that is where the outrage should be here, not just at some piddly arena deal that won't matter in a decade either way.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Slava

Which part gave you that implication? The part where I said I didn't like these arrangements or the part where I said it shows everything thats wrong with the electoral finance laws?

I was thinking of the part where every time there is a criticism of Redford or the PC"s you are there to say it it no big deal, everyone does it or the WR would be just as bad.

Originally Posted by Slava

That has nothing to do with the PCs though; any party could fall into this because if that donation is attributable to multiple people (even though they're all connected!) its within the rules. To me that is where the outrage should be here, not just at some piddly arena deal that won't matter in a decade either way.

It has everything to do with the PC"s because they are the ones who took the donation. "If" (as has been reported) Katz wrote a cheque for $430K then it does NOT fall within the rules. This excuse that campaigns are full of uneducated volunteers who don't know any better doesn't hold water. We aren't talking about some run of the mill donation here, there is no way that only the flunkies in the party knew about it.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I was thinking of the part where every time there is a criticism of Redford or the PC"s you are there to say it it no big deal, everyone does it or the WR would be just as bad.


It has everything to do with the PC"s because they are the ones who took the donation. "If" (as has been reported) Katz wrote a cheque for $430K then it does NOT fall within the rules. This excuse that campaigns are full of uneducated volunteers who don't know any better doesn't hold water. We aren't talking about some run of the mill donation here, there is no way that only the flunkies in the party knew about it.

I'm just going to try to make this distinction one more time. My issue isn't based on one party. I have a problem that this type of donation can occur in the first place. It makes no difference which party it is. If someone can cut a cheque and it can be structured so that everything is fine in a situation like this, there's an obvious danger there to the rest of us.

I'm sorry if you're hoping for something more blindly partisan than that from me. I'm not too interested in what Redford knew or when she knew it. I don't really care about whether she phoned him or not, and I also won't care if he gets a Christmas card from the PCs or the Wildrose for his donations to each party. Its irrelevant. The fact that a person or entity can donate about half a million dollars to any party and keep it within the bounds of the law (whether they managed to here or not) is the issue. Maybe the structure of this particular donation wasn't just perfect, but the point is it could have been. That is far more worrying and far more damaging to democracy regardless of which party does it.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm just going to try to make this distinction one more time. My issue isn't based on one party. I have a problem that this type of donation can occur in the first place. It makes no difference which party it is. If someone can cut a cheque and it can be structured so that everything is fine in a situation like this, there's an obvious danger there to the rest of us.

I'm sorry if you're hoping for something more blindly partisan than that from me. I'm not too interested in what Redford knew or when she knew it. I don't really care about whether she phoned him or not, and I also won't care if he gets a Christmas card from the PCs or the Wildrose for his donations to each party. Its irrelevant. The fact that a person or entity can donate about half a million dollars to any party and keep it within the bounds of the law (whether they managed to here or not) is the issue. Maybe the structure of this particular donation wasn't just perfect, but the point is it could have been. That is far more worrying and far more damaging to democracy regardless of which party does it.

See...I would disagree with that. obviously campaign financing is one issue, and in that case yes it would involve all parties. particularly when redford made it part of her campaign just a few months ago.

But as mentioned earlier, there is very much a large and troubling issue beside that one and that is redfords claim she knew "nothing" about the donation amount to begin with. Again that leaves us with one of two options as to where she is as a leader of the governing party, ie....either completely incompetant or a lying liar. The more i learn about this, its plain as the nose on Tim Hunters mug which way that answer is going to fall. Another in a long list of BS she has been dropping on albertans since taking the highest seat in the province....something that has zero to do with the wra and any mention of it is merely a deflection from what ACTUALLY happened and not some hypothetical "what if" nonsense.

[Slava]

OK, so what changes if she knew of the donation? Aside from Wildrose supporters being able to say "see, we knew that she knew!" not much?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

OK, so what changes if she knew of the donation? Aside from Wildrose supporters being able to say "see, we knew that she knew!" not much?

If she knew about it, and then stood in the legislature saying repeatedly she didnt know about it...makes her a bald faced liar to every single Albertan and beyond that, it should have those within her own party and everyone else wondering whatb else she has lied about from day 1.

And before you try the whole " a politician lied, what a shock" spiel, there are differing levels of this kind of thing which you seem to either ignore or simply dont care about. Its one thing to proclaim that if elected my party will do "this and that", and quite another to be blatently aware of a digression within the rules of the province and stand there playing the "im innocent" card.

If she is a liar...she is a liar and as such should be investigated, hounded, tarred and feathered for it. You would say the exact same thing if it was Dannielle Smith in that position, so why the hell should Mrs Doubtfire get a free pass?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by transplant99

If she knew about it, and then stood in the legislature saying repeatedly she didnt know about it...makes her a bald faced liar to every single Albertan and beyond that, it should have those within her own party and everyone else wondering whatb else she has lied about from day 1.

And before you try the whole " a politician lied, what a shock" spiel, there are differing levels of this kind of thing which you seem to either ignore or simply dont care about. Its one thing to proclaim that if elected my party will do "this and that", and quite another to be blatently aware of a digression within the rules of the province and stand there playing the "im innocent" card.

If she is a liar...she is a liar and as such should be investigated, hounded, tarred and feathered for it. You would say the exact same thing if it was Dannielle Smith in that position, so why the hell should Mrs Doubtfire get a free pass?

All of that being the case, it just goes to my point here that the real issue is the problem with the electoral finance rules.

You'll have to excuse me for not getting bent out of shape about the lying. It's so frequent now at every level that I'm just too cynical about it now. Harper has lied numerous times and those get a free pass, but a politician you like less doesn't. I get it. It's just so tiresome.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

All of that being the case, it just goes to my point here that the real issue is the problem with the electoral finance rules.

You'll have to excuse me for not getting bent out of shape about the lying. It's so frequent now at every level that I'm just too cynical about it now. Harper has lied numerous times and those get a free pass, but a politician you like less doesn't. I get it. It's just so tiresome.

Again you turn it around to point at another political party instead of addressing who actually is the one in the crosshairs at the moment.

Speaking of getting so tiresome.

[monkeyman]

The same people overlooking all these PC transgressions are the same people who fell for the whole "we usually vote liberal, but..." guess what, it was a pc ploy to fool the suckers. it worked. Redford continues to fool the suckers with the "i didn't know" excuse. she said it about the transition payments, she said it about the pay for not meeting, she said it about this. and i'm a long time PC supporter. Say what you will about Klein, he was a hell of a Premier in my books and everything we albertans sacrificed and worked so hard for has been unravelled by the last two Premiers. it's scary!

[killer_carlson]

I am not very happy with our "objective" speaker shutting down debate on this issue.

[CaptainCrunch]

Redford is terrible, dishonest, arrogant and I'm starting to think either she's stupid or she has a low opinion of the voters as she continually trots out the whole "I didn't know" or "I have not control over that" lines that she loses.

This whole thing stinks to high heavens as a man trying to get as much public funds as he can for his arena starts shoveling money by the bucket full into the PC Parties banks.

Its a shame there's no recall ability.

Oh well we got what we voted for an out of control arrogant tired party led by either a liar or a moron, I'm not sure which.

[Skootenbeeten]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

The same people overlooking all these PC transgressions are the same people who fell for the whole "we usually vote liberal, but..." guess what, it was a pc ploy to fool the suckers. it worked. Redford continues to fool the suckers with the "i didn't know" excuse. she said it about the transition payments, she said it about the pay for not meeting, she said it about this. and i'm a long time PC supporter. Say what you will about Klein, he was a hell of a Premier in my books and everything we albertans sacrificed and worked so hard for has been unravelled by the last two Premiers. it's scary!

Was he really? Low standards I guess.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Skootenbeeten

Was he really? Low standards I guess.

I guess you just prefer the current crop of politician who will tell you everything you want to hear and give give give while stuffing their own pockets. Ralf made the hard choices, paid down the debt, had record surpluses... It was hard on a lot of albertans but we go through it, only to see the past two premiers destroy it by giving it all away to buy elections. Just stick your head back in the sand and believe the bs being fed to you by this current administration.