2023/24 Blue Jays Off Season Thread

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Not sure I like.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1725662029468324017

[bluejays]

Wasn’t a fan of his. Had way too many games where he was shaken. Consistency is key. With a unique delivery I’d think he’d throw guys off more but that wasn’t the case.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Not sure I like.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1725662029468324017

He was unreal value for 2021 and 2022. Wheels fell off a bit this season but he was a decent bullpen arm for a while.

[browna]

Clearly a move to make room for Ohtani, who will defy all odds and pitch out of the pen next year as part of his TJ rehab.

[bluejays]

I think it's a sign they're going to go after a better name, that's for sure.

[Roof-Daddy]

I think Cimber's estimated arb award was going to be north of $3 million.

Too much money for mere depth when they have tons of cheap bullpen depth in AAA and AA

[bluejays]

Not fully sure I support a Manoah trade. I personally think there’s a small chance he pulls it together and returns to form next year, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a serviceable bullpen arm. It frankly comes down to the truth they get. If you’re selling him for scraps, no interest. If he’s being sold in a package with others for a star, sure. You just don’t sell low on him for scraps though. I’m sure he’s pissed off management royally behind the scenes with his act, but they have to manage him as an asset.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Not fully sure I support a Manoah trade. I personally think there’s a small chance he pulls it together and returns to form next year, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a serviceable bullpen arm. It frankly comes down to the truth they get. If you’re selling him for scraps, no interest. If he’s being sold in a package with others for a star, sure. You just don’t sell low on him for scraps though. I’m sure he’s pissed off management royally behind the scenes with his act, but they have to manage him as an asset.

Totally agree, why sell low. Like so low its boottomed out.

Unless they think theres absolutely no turning it around.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Totally agree, why sell low. Like so low its boottomed out.

Unless they think theres absolutely no turning it around.

Yup. In baseball, comebacks from injuries are really hard. It's a game of slight mechanics and if you can't get that back to what you had or better, that small difference plays a huge part in being a serviceable player or someone in the minors. When a guy seems to be mentally fragile, like Manoah here (ignore the squawking), it's not only a physical barrier to overcome but a mental one, and that can be overwhelming. For that reason I don't think he returns to what he was. Though I do think with some attention he can become an effective reliever. Pearson is another guy who I hope manages to figure it out with age in the bullpen.

[Parallex]

I have a bit more hope for Manoah... hopefully with the offseason he's had enough time to dwell on what happened and figure out what went sideways with him last year. It's to soon to give up on him.

Right now his trade value is squarely on "reclamation project" and I'd rather have Manoah as our own reclamation project then get a reclamation project return in trade. Pencil him in as the #6 starter to start the season (So Buffalo to start) and go get a cheap #5 guy... If Manoah destroys AAA so much the better, if he doesn't then you have the #5 spot covered.

[KelVarnsen]

Skydome update
https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article...ns-push-ahead/

[Roof-Daddy]

I hope the Jays can land Yamamoto and then have no open spots for Manoah.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I have a bit more hope for Manoah... hopefully with the offseason he's had enough time to dwell on what happened and figure out what went sideways with him last year. It's to soon to give up on him.

Right now his trade value is squarely on "reclamation project" and I'd rather have Manoah as our own reclamation project then get a reclamation project return in trade. Pencil him in as the #6 starter to start the season (So Buffalo to start) and go get a cheap #5 guy... If Manoah destroys AAA so much the better, if he doesn't then you have the #5 spot covered.

Agreed. If the relationship between Manoah and the team can be salvaged, they should keep him. There is no such thing as too much pitching depth - there is no chance that their pretty old starting rotation will be as healthy this season as last year.

Selling low on a young Cy Young finalist/all star with team control is poor asset management. I’d rather give him another year to prove that he is beyond repair and then writing him off than take a risk that he finds his old self with another team this season.

[Roof-Daddy]

Maybe the Jays don't think Manoah will ever regain the value he once had?

Maybe they believe the dwindling hope of him being able to bounce back in another org is the only thing that would allow them to get any value for him if they packaged him up now?

[KelVarnsen]

Do you trust Atkins to make a good trade?

I don't.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Maybe the Jays don't think Manoah will ever regain the value he once had?

Maybe they believe the dwindling hope of him being able to bounce back in another org is the only thing that would allow them to get any value for him if they packaged him up now?

If there is a 25% chance that he returns to form, I think he’s worth keeping. We’ve seen it with Berrios and Kikuchi.

At this point, Manoah is essentially back to prospect status. Him and Tiedemann are our best prospects for starting pitching and I doubt we’d want to ship away one of our best prospects for pennies on the dollar.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Maybe the Jays don't think Manoah will ever regain the value he once had?

Maybe they believe the dwindling hope of him being able to bounce back in another org is the only thing that would allow them to get any value for him if they packaged him up now?

It depends on their trade philosophy. Are things that catastrophic with him where getting something is better than getting nothing because his upside isn't high anymore? Or is his upside high, and if teams are lowballing, may as well keep him as our project? Totally no point of selling him on a c or d-grade prospect IMO. If he's part of a package for Soto, sure.


Atkins I don't believe has robbed any team yet on any trade. He tends to trade too fairly. I'm very skeptical he's a good negotiator, but this off-season will say a lot. If he doesn't have a good off-season, fire him to the sun as soon as the season begins. No sense in wasting time. Let a new GM come in and assess his assets from the beginning of the season.

[ben voyonsdonc]

If you have a broken down Maserati that has a 25% chance of getting fixed, would you trade it for a broken down Hyundai Accent than has a 70% chance of getting fixed? Realistically, we are probably looking at picking up a reclamation project or a relatively meh prospect as the return for him.

The upside on a potential return to form for Manoah makes it hard to deal him.

[Jiggy_12]

Some chatter on twitter today about the Jays potentially listening to offers on Bichette. No real official source but a few reporters tweeting about it. Cubs specifically have been mentioned.

I'm all for trading one of Vladdy or Bo...would prefer it be Vladdy. His position is easier to fill and I see Bo as the more consistent bat overall.

That being said, I also would expect Bo to fetch a better trade return.

[Samonadreau]

We better get an absolute haul if we trade Bo.