Russia invades Ukraine

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

There's no mechanism to remove Russia as a permanent member of the security council that I can see. In theory the Un could invoke Article 5 which is suspension of rights, and article 6 which is expulsion of a member from the UN for violation of the charter. However China would veto any action like that as would Russia.

Stupid question but could the UN just “dissolve” then re-assemble immediately under a new moniker? They could then eliminate Russia from the security counsel.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Except that western nations have been dealing with cyber attacks from Russia and China for many years now, most system should be pretty well hardened. It's standard best practice now for businesses to completely block any access to/from Russia or China IPs, I have no idea how hardened Russian systems are when they have to defend for once

What I'm saying is that if you launch an "unprecedented cyber attack", it's no longer unprecedented, and China can go to school on it where right now there is probably a degree of uncertainty about what it would look like. You are giving away a strategic advantage.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I think I read somewhere that Ukraine made a motion to question the legitimacy of Russia being the successor to the USSR and therefore their legitimacy at being the permanent SC member.

Maybe Ukraine should be the permanent SC member!

They can bring that up all they want, but it won't get consensus to pass, and Russia and China would squash it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting that anyone should level Moscow... CC said that was a "fever dream". Same goes for an invasion of Russia. As far as Putin being a psychopath who wants some version of the Soviet Union restored, that doesn't seem anywhere near as crazy a thing to suggest. As far as removing Russia from the security council... I admit I don't really know much about that but I'd be interested to hear why that would be a bad thing.

Removing Russia from the SC would essentially end the best avenue of diplomacy with Russia. It would also result in Russia, and whoever they can manage to convince to come with them, essentially withdrawing from the UN and no long heading any international rule of law. The response from Russia would just be to increase the pace of whatever it plans on doing.

There's also no mechanism to remove them. The UN was established on the principle that the permanent SC members would remain that way forever. All permanent members of the UN SC have veto power, and the only way to remove a member is by approval from the SC. You'd essentially have to dissolve the UN and start a new body to remove any of the permanent members. The Russia and its allies would not join this new international body.

The only, realistic, weapons the West has are economic pressure and beating Russia at its own propaganda game. If the West can turn Russia's population against Putin and they remove him themselves, that's the only way to really defeat him.

[Firebot]

All the stuff we have been dealing with 'freedom convoys' and our EA feels so petty, self serving and inconsequential in comparison to what Ukrainians are dealing with right now, their democratic country being wiped out from the face of the earth simply for a lunatic's wet dream of bringing the USSR back.

Russians protesting in Moscow right now are brave as well, they are facing an oppressive regime and potentially jail / death.

[Ozy_Flame]

100%.

Convoy people should reflect on what's happening and observe what a real loss of freedom looks like.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by blankall

Removing Russia from the SC would essentially end the best avenue of diplomacy with Russia. It would also result in Russia, and whoever they can manage to convince to come with them, essentially withdrawing from the UN and no long heading any international rule of law. The response from Russia would just be to increase the pace of whatever it plans on doing.

There's also no mechanism to remove them. The UN was established on the principle that the permanent SC members would remain that way forever. All permanent members of the UN SC have veto power, and the only way to remove a member is by approval from the SC. You'd essentially have to dissolve the UN and start a new body to remove any of the permanent members. The Russia and its allies would not join this new international body.

The only, realistic, weapons the West has are economic pressure and beating Russia at its own propaganda game. If the West can turn Russia's population against Putin and they remove him themselves, that's the only way to really defeat him.

Again Russia was not an original or permanent member of the SC. USSR was.

I'm sure lawyers could draw something up if that's the path the SC wanted to go down - which isn't likely. You're right having Russia there is actually probably a good thing.

[djsFlames]

Wait, what does one even do with Chornobyl?

Wouldn't it be wise to leave the personnel that are monitoring & fortifying the "shell" to do the work that they've been doing there?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Wait, what does one even do with Chornobyl?

Wouldn't it be wise to leave the personnel that are monitoring & fortifying the "shell" to do the work that they've been doing there?

There are still a bunch of active reactors on the Chernobyl site.

[Muta]

Agreed. The freedumb convoy and its short-sighted supporters are now witnessing what a real, actual 'fight for freedom' looks like. The convoy lives in a ####ing freedom paradise compared to what's happening now.

[Pointman]

Summary of the day, as per Russia media:

Russian troops have restored water supply to Crimea

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Again Russia was not an original or permanent member of the SC. USSR was.

I'm sure lawyers could draw something up if that's the path the SC wanted to go down - which isn't likely. You're right having Russia there is actually probably a good thing.

They would need a consensus, and it would have to pass a security council resolution which there is zero percent chance of happening.

Plus if you throw Russia out, frankly you lose a diplomatic option, and Russia would even have to make a pretense of defending its actions.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Ukraine is getting hammered, lives are being lost, and independence and democracy is at stake. People are fleeing their homes, and the biggest war is happening in Europe in a generation.

And we have people waxing poetic about Keystone XL, including our bumbling petrosexual of a Premier who feels this is the right time to talk about O/G. Pipelines that would take years to complete.

My god.

When war breaks out, it’s best to immediately consider and share with everyone how you can profit from it.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Okay, I know this is a bit hypocritical given that I just talked about leaving the thread policing to the moderators, but for Christ's sake, can those who are obsessed with Trudeau or the Trucker Convoy or Jason Kenney and who feel the need to bring every discussion topic back around to those hobby horses please #### right off back to the Canadian Politics thread or the Alberta Politics thread or the Freedumb Convoy thread or literally anywhere else?

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Azure

Nothing nevermind about it. Consecutive governments going back to before Harper are responsible for this.

Canada should be countering Russian energy with a stable supply of Canadian LNG & oil.

Totally. The pipelines would have stopped Putin.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Firebot

All the stuff we have been dealing with 'freedom convoys' and our EA feels so petty, self serving and inconsequential in comparison to what Ukrainians are dealing with right now, their democratic country being wiped out from the face of the earth simply for a lunatic's wet dream of bringing the USSR back.

Russians protesting in Moscow right now are brave as well, they are facing an oppressive regime and potentially jail / death.

The contrast really underlies the unnecessary selfishness that was the convoy.

I said it throughout. We have it so good here. Even in a pandemic with restrictions, we are essentially living in luxury here in comparison to many places without having to worry about our well-being and basic needs being threatened by real oppression (which the liberal government is NOT).

It all stems from a lack of gratitude and permeating sense of entitlement after being coddled with freedom and safety for decades.

[Ozy_Flame]

Sure, as long as we remove the discussion of O/G, pipelines and Keystone to its own thread as well.

####ing ridiculous to even bring that #### up with where the world is right now.

[CaptainCrunch]

The only real military option I see that's possible would be with Airpower and lots of it. And that's not likely to happen.


It would also likely cause a overwhelming response by Russia where they would attack staging airfields outside of the Ukraine.


But you could give air power and ground support to the Ukrainian Forces. Drop strategic road crossing bridges and railway line to hurt Russian Logistics. Attack Russian armored formations and go after Russian anti-air assets.


However the cost would be extremely high.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Okay, I know this is a bit hypocritical given that I just talked about leaving the thread policing to the moderators, but for Christ's sake, can those who are obsessed with Trudeau or the Trucker Convoy or Jason Kenney and who feel the need to bring every discussion topic back around to those hobby horses please #### right off back to the Canadian Politics thread or the Alberta Politics thread or the Freedumb Convoy thread or literally anywhere else?

My bad. Just think its a point worth making. And I hope people acknowledge it. Its a good lesson in perspective.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

When war breaks out, it’s best to immediately consider and share with everyone how you can profit from it.

No one seemed to have a problem when Germany discussed securing their energy sources.