I expect most couples have had these sorts of exchanges (though you may be surprised at how many couples don’t talk at all about or during sex).
But I doubt you have secured consent at every stage of every sexual encounter you’ve ever had together. Sexual contact includes kissing, intimate caresses, etc. Testing the waters is not a legal defence. And previous consent or long-standing intimacy does not imply future consent. Maybe you behaved exactly the same in your 1,000th sexual contact with your partner than you did in your first. But I’d wager that’s far from common.
You approach a woman from behind as she’s making scrambled eggs and kiss her on the neck. As I understand it (and I’m happy to be corrected) this is sexual contact without consent, and the law makes no distinction whether she’s a stranger, someone you’ve been dating for a month, or your spouse of 20 years. Most people will regard those as very different situations, and behave accordingly. Under the law they are not different.
But like, anecdotally, my wife had specifically told me that she loves when I do exactly what you’ve described. She’s provided consent, and hasn’t taken it away (which she could at any time either through body language when it happens or actual words). Instead, it’s reenforced each time with more consent.
I don’t understand how someone would repeatedly grab at, touch, or kiss their partner without previously establishing they actually like those things happening. I honestly wouldn't’. I’d want to know if my partner actually likes that or if they just bear it thinking I like it.
Last edited by Scroopy Noopers; 05-28-2025 at 08:56 AM.
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I expect most couples have had these sorts of exchanges (though you may be surprised at how many couples don’t talk at all about or during sex).
But I doubt you have secured consent at every stage of every sexual encounter you’ve ever had together. Sexual contact includes kissing, intimate caresses, etc. Testing the waters is not a legal defence. And previous consent or long-standing intimacy does not imply future consent. Maybe you behaved exactly the same in your 1,000th sexual contact with your partner than you did in your first. But I’d wager that’s far from common.
You approach a woman from behind as she’s making scrambled eggs and kiss her on the neck. As I understand it (and I’m happy to be corrected) this is sexual contact without consent, and the law makes no distinction whether she’s a stranger, someone you’ve been dating for a month, or your spouse of 20 years. Most people will regard those as very different situations, and behave accordingly. Under the law they are not different.
Most of us break the law even more frequently every time we get behind the wheel.
Which really makes you think about the philosophical nature of society and our modern interpretations of justice with regard to how our actions can harm or be generally received by others.
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You approach a woman from behind as she’s making scrambled eggs and kiss her on the neck. As I understand it (and I’m happy to be corrected) this is sexual contact without consent, and the law makes no distinction whether she’s a stranger, someone you’ve been dating for a month, or your spouse of 20 years. Most people will regard those as very different situations, and behave accordingly. Under the law they are not different.
And yet the vast majority of recipients of that neck kiss from their spouse of 20 years do not feel they have been assaulted and do not press charges. Why?
Whether EM finds peace in criminal justice, she should at least hold her head high knowing that she has inspired a nation wide conversation about active consent.
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And yet the vast majority of recipients of that neck kiss from their spouse of 20 years do not feel they have been assaulted and do not press charges. Why?
I’ll be happy to answer another question you’ve posed once you answer the first I posed to you. Show you’re engaged in a good faith discussion and not just trying to score points.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
I’ll be happy to answer another question you’ve posed once you answer the first I posed to you. Show you’re engaged in a good faith discussion and not just trying to score points.
I neither agree nor disagree, I simply respect their opinion. Now you (also save the “internet point” stuff, that’s childish in an otherwise adult conversation).
You approach a woman from behind as she’s making scrambled eggs and kiss her on the neck. As I understand it (and I’m happy to be corrected) this is sexual contact without consent, and the law makes no distinction whether she’s a stranger, someone you’ve been dating for a month, or your spouse of 20 years. Most people will regard those as very different situations, and behave accordingly. Under the law they are not different.
It isn't possible to say whether or not this hypothetical situation is sexual assault or not because you've left out the most important fact: does the woman, in her mind, consent to the sexual contact?
Consent is not a verbal or written statement giving permission. It is a state of mind.
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Not to pick on you but In a way I will but all your responses like you should just know based on her looks is concerning and how ppl get into trials like these.
It's not that simple as you make it seem . I've been with my wife for 17 years . We have relations settings from 0 to 10. Nothing is just based on how us think the other is enjoying it based on perception. Again 17 YEARS! we still are vocal on every step because we are 2 different people . Yes we both want sex at the same time but the type of we both want at that time can be very different and very different at different points of the encounter. Some times it starts as a 10 anything gos but as stamina and certain let's say acts can take extra stuff ( to body has limits ) by the end it may be a 2 or 3 ending. . The opposite is true to we both may start out tired and only a 2 or 3 but by the end it ends up a 10 in kink. Then it's like didn't expect that.
All those scenarios are because of constantly asking "Do you like that" Do you want me to do this" Is this still working for you " " How do you want me to continue " etc etc....
Asking questions usually leads to I want this or that and her asking does that work for you or me just telling her I actually need this postion right now for various reasons. Like I have a bad knee so I can't do somethings some times or If I'm willing to play thru the pain like. Like sure I can try to do that my knees #### but let's try it or I'm sorry I can't do that know my knees pretty bad today can we try this instead ( usually want they want just in a more comfortable position to me.
By doing that and doing what your partner wants in the moment can lead and escalate quickly from earlier nose to yeses to different acts asked previously. Maybe they were not into that act when you asked at first but you did what they wanted at the time now they are all hot and bothered and want the next level so they ask you to do what you wanted to do to be all hot and bothered.
Like I'm just saying talking and asking questions recently during sex doesn't kill the mood. If any thing it enhances it because the worst she can say no but if you do what she likes and she's having a good time cuz you listened to her if not during that encounter maybe later in a different encounter she'll be open to some things you've asked in the past.
Communication is key in sex . Not just before and after but during. My partner shot down many ideas during but after some time and thought where she didn't need to make a in the moment type of decision started to suggest things herself and the only happened because we where constantly checking in.
I haven't ever been in to sex with a partner unless they were vocal about what was working or not during a sexual encounter. I don't like just going off perception. I'm a man I'm usually going to have a fun time but if my partner can give me feed back on what's working for her and what's not that's even better. I wanna have sex but I also want her to be having the same level of fun as I'm having and I'm no mind reader.
The scenarios your describing is from porn. But even what you see is discussed way before the camera is wrong. Even James Dean (Male actor) was in some hot water years ago for doing sex moves outside of what was discussed prior to shooting videos.
IMO the only base line to 2 partners is Dick going into a ##### or what ever your partner is. Or has. The moment of insertion happens the sexual contract is a moving agreement. Some times it's basic missionary and it starts and ends like that and some times it's starts as the basic sex agreement but through const communications you house ends up looking like someone broke in and you've got god knows what was used and you all lubed up and sweating in another part of the house not even rembinbering certain parts of what lead to it and that only happens from constant communication.
Just because you or your partner like some thing a minute ago dosen't mean you like it still.
I want to touch on your a strike comment just a bit. Short answer is yes , you ask .. " you want me to grap your hips , you want legs up or down? To want me to grab
Your tit's and how hard? You want me to pull your hair and how hard? You want me to rub your clit while I'm f you?
Sorry if sort of a "crude " post as you put it but this all seems pretty basic stuff... you want me to spank you? Do you want me to spank you like this or like this? Too light okay how bout this still to light ? Then how bought this then .
You pose the question about how it ruins the mood to much asking questions and you should just know . Brother I'm here to tell you the "you should just know falls under like 20 layers a minute in what consent is and isn't and what non conent ot what consent is changes especially in the matter of seconds both ways .
Like I said 17 years with my wife and we have known each other for 23 years consent sexually is a constant second by second update.
So verbal consent is required? Perhaps you should get that consent on video? You're saying video of verbal consent exonerates someone?
I'm not trying to pick on you, but g-dam CP never change. You've all completely missed the issues in this case to once again white knight. Verbal consent during a sex act means F-all. If a person is too afraid to get up and leave or say no when you are putting your genitals into their mouth, they likely aren't going to suddenly say no because you've quickly asked them partway through a long sex act if they are still consenting.
Once again, the mood and the demeanour, behaviour, body language, etc.. of the other person and whether there is mutual engagement are far more important than some legal contract you think you've created by getting verbal consent.
Also the chauvinism in here is something else. Listen to you guys...
"I'm a man"...sex is me putting my dick into someone. I need to ask if "Daddy" can give a spank?
I'm sorry, my view on the whole thing is just different. I see a mutual act between adults. That, yes, involves a degree of spontaneity. Sex is very much about reading the partner. If there are any signs that the other person is not enjoying themselves, then yes absolutely ask about it. You shouldn't be tacking drastic steps. It's typically a slow progression within reasonable bounds, where both people have the opportunity to stop at any point.
Of course, I've asked part-way through sex if the other person is still into it, but that's not typically the norm, as I can typically see them enjoying it.
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"how about Daddy gives you a little spank, bad girl" or something like that is a way you could ask while still giving off "mood" vibes if you're really struggling. It's really, really not complicated and again i feel that if this type of interaction during sex is ruining someone's mood, something else ain't right!
Light spank when things are really going, totally unacceptable.
Imposing a daddy/daughter power dynamic, totally encouraged...gotcha.
I think things actually are a lot more complicated than you are suggesting.
Light spank when things are really going, totally unacceptable.
Imposing a daddy/daughter power dynamic, totally encouraged...gotcha.
I think things actually are a lot more complicated than you are suggesting.
Ha y'know I have never really thought of that as a "daddy-daughter" dynamic, more the "daddy knocked up mommy" dynamic. But sure, whatever floats your boat.
I personally just ask. I was just trying to lay out how one could conceivably ask while staying in some sort of mood. It's really uncomplicated. You just let the words come out of your mouth. I have literally never been in a sexual situation where asking a question would ruin the mood, this is why I am struggling to talk to you about this. I fully dont understand your position, which is ok, I am just not sure how to discuss it.
Ha y'know I have never really thought of that as a "daddy-daughter" dynamic, more the "daddy knocked up mommy" dynamic. But sure, whatever floats your boat.
I personally just ask. I was just trying to lay out how one could conceivably ask while staying in some sort of mood. It's really uncomplicated. You just let the words come out of your mouth. I have literally never been in a sexual situation where asking a question would ruin the mood, this is why I am struggling to talk to you about this. I fully dont understand your position, which is ok, I am just not sure how to discuss it.
A woman is about to orgasm, you're both breathing very heavily. You have one last move to make her go. Instead you stop and ask her for consent. I'm sorry if you've never been in a situation where there was a degree of spontaneity. And nice attempt to cover up, but most adults don't refer to themselves as mommy/daddy during sex, particularly not single adults.
A woman is about to orgasm, you're both breathing very heavily. You have one last move to make her go. Instead you stop and ask her for consent.
Most women I have been with that are close to orgasm do not want you to switch moves or anything when they are close. They want you to continue doing exactly what you're doing that got them close.
This is a generality, of course, but also one I have learned from talking about these types of things openly with a partner.
No one is saying that you have to get verbal consent for every thrust. But, if you're going to switch positions, a quick, "hey, you ok if we flip over?" goes a long way to making the event a success. Also, she may have specific requests that you have now given opportunity to air.
Example: sometimes, specific positions result in me having to stop and check if I am going too deep, which can be uncomfortable. It may not be immediately apparent to me, and the inclination of your partner is sometimes to allow you to continue a bit even if there's minor discomfort but things are going well. However, I don't want there to be discomfort. Communicating allows us to shift more to ensure there's none. Capisce?
I expect most couples have had these sorts of exchanges (though you may be surprised at how many couples don’t talk at all about or during sex).
But I doubt you have secured consent at every stage of every sexual encounter you’ve ever had together. Sexual contact includes kissing, intimate caresses, etc. Testing the waters is not a legal defence. And previous consent or long-standing intimacy does not imply future consent. Maybe you behaved exactly the same in your 1,000th sexual contact with your partner than you did in your first. But I’d wager that’s far from common.
You approach a woman from behind as she’s making scrambled eggs and kiss her on the neck. As I understand it (and I’m happy to be corrected) this is sexual contact without consent, and the law makes no distinction whether she’s a stranger, someone you’ve been dating for a month, or your spouse of 20 years. Most people will regard those as very different situations, and behave accordingly. Under the law they are not different.
You should never underestimate the power of
A kiss on the neck, when she doesn't expect
A kiss on the neck, when she doesn't expect
A kiss on the neck
And every time you catch her singin' in the shower
You should go and get a flower
Don't matter what the hour
Just rub it on her back, rub it on her back, rub it on her back
It isn't possible to say whether or not this hypothetical situation is sexual assault or not because you've left out the most important fact: does the woman, in her mind, consent to the sexual contact?
Consent is not a verbal or written statement giving permission. It is a state of mind.
Yes. And we often don’t know the state of mind of other people. That’s what makes this area of the law so murky and complex. As much as a lot of people wish it were otherwise.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Most women I have been with that are close to orgasm do not want you to switch moves or anything when they are close. They want you to continue doing exactly what you're doing that got them close.
This is a generality, of course, but also one I have learned from talking about these types of things openly with a partner.
No one is saying that you have to get verbal consent for every thrust. But, if you're going to switch positions, a quick, "hey, you ok if we flip over?" goes a long way to making the event a success. Also, she may have specific requests that you have now given opportunity to air.
Example: sometimes, specific positions result in me having to stop and check if I am going too deep, which can be uncomfortable. It may not be immediately apparent to me, and the inclination of your partner is sometimes to allow you to continue a bit even if there's minor discomfort but things are going well. However, I don't want there to be discomfort. Communicating allows us to shift more to ensure there's none. Capisce?
Once again, very chauvinistic to presume you know what all women want.
I've definitely asked for verbal permission before making moves/switching positions, but definitely not every time, and I honestly don't think that everyone in here can say they've asked for permission every time without lying.
A woman is about to orgasm, you're both breathing very heavily. You have one last move to make her go. Instead you stop and ask her for consent. I'm sorry if you've never been in a situation where there was a degree of spontaneity. And nice attempt to cover up, but most adults don't refer to themselves as mommy/daddy during sex, particularly not single adults.
Ok let’s not get carried away in these make believe scenarios.
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Everyone who disagrees with you is stupid
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if you lean in for a kiss on the neck and she recoils or withdraws then that should indicate non-consent. I mean, it should be pretty easy to interpret, right? You don’t need to speak in legalese to set up boundaries.
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Ok let’s not get carried away in these make believe scenarios.
lol. Well...not me personally....but a guy I know. Him and her....well no...but you can imagine what it'd be like if they did!
Here's another scenario. I've been trying to avoid getting into too many details...but....
You're having sex in a missionary position. You get up onto your knees, you touch her hips motioning to her that you want her to be in front of you. She gets up onto her hands and knees and looks back and smiles. You start thrusting, but she is also thrusting back. There are quite loud smacking noises from your hips striking her buttocks. You give her a light tap on the buttocks - that creates considerably less force than the hips/buttocks force - she looks back and smiles and then begins to thrust back harder.
The correct thing to do is then stop and have a conversation about verbal consent and whether or not a slightly harder tap on the buttocks is acceptable?
The fact that people are obsessing over this, when we are literally dealing with a case where a bunch of creeps filmed a woman giving, potentially coerced, verbal consent and stating that verbal consent is required between position/moves is absurd. First....I don't believe any of you. Second you're missing the point of what consent is. It's not a legal contract that gives you carte blanche. This isn't a property sale, where once you sign on the dotted line you are committed.
Newton asks Dubé to take him through the night of June 18 and early-morning hours of June 19, 2018.
Dubé doesn’t say much about being at the bar (although he thought it was Jack Astor’s, not Jack’s bar). He tells the investigator that when he walked into the hotel room, he saw a naked woman.
“At one point, I stood up and I thought, ‘I might as well,’ so I pulled my pants down and she came up to me and gave me oral for like, 10 seconds maybe, and I kind of knew it was a bad idea. I didn’t want to be part of this and I stumbled back,” Dubé tells the detective.
With his pants somewhere around his ankles or knees, he sort of fell, and Cal Foote helped him put his pants back on.
“I was like, ‘I don’t want to be here, let’s go,’” Dubé says in the police interview.
Spoiler!
Dubé tells the police officer he was one of the last guys to arrive at the hotel room and one of the first to leave, so he wasn’t there a long time.
In the recording, the detective asks him how he knew to go to Room 209.
Dubé says teammate Jake Bean texted, “‘Hey boys, I ordered pizza, room whatever,’” and nothing about a woman in the room.
Dubé says he didn’t look at his phone for the rest of the night.
“No mention of a girl in the text?” Newton asks? “No,” Dubé answers.
Court has previously seen texts from McLeod telling a group text that a woman was available for “a three-way” in his room.
Spoiler!
WARNING: This post contains graphic details.
The detective asks Dubé what he thought when he walked into the room and saw a naked woman there.
“I thought, ‘Holy, man! What the f–ck is going on?’” Dubé responds.
The woman was “coming at us. She was chirping us for not doing anything with her, which I thought was weird. I didn’t see that before,” he told the police officer.
Dubé tells the officer that the woman did not seem drunk “at all” and she was “talking normal.”
Asked again to describe the oral sex he received from the woman, Dubé says he “just kind of pulled down the front” of his pants, thought “this isn’t good,” and stopped things after “10 or 15 seconds.”
The woman didn’t seem like she didn’t want to be there, he says.
“I thought she wanted to be there more than us,” Dubé tells the detective. “I didn’t want to be there, to be honest. It’s not what I’m about. I don’t need that in my life. I feel like she wanted to be there.”
Spoiler!
Because Dubé was captain of the Canadian world junior team, he was a leader and in charge of the championship trophy.
“I had to take the trophy wherever I went and make sure it didn’t leave my side,” Dubé says in the police interview.
He says he dropped off the trophy in his hotel room before going to Room 209, making sure his roommate kept it safe.
He says he was really drunk and if he were in a different state, he probably would have left right away, but he was able to determine that things weren’t “really bad.”
“If things were different and really bad, I probably would have controlled the guys and kind of kicked the guys out, but I didn’t think anything of it at the time. I didn’t think that she [E.M.] was drunk or against her will by any means.”
With that, the audio recording being played in court ends.
