Brad Treliving needs to go

[DeluxeMoustache]

The day they are mathematically eliminated is the absolute last day, from a diplomatic standpoint, that they should fire him

They have seen all they should need

Absolutely no time to waste, once the games to be played are meaningless

Time to move forward

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The day they are mathematically eliminated is the absolute last day, from a diplomatic standpoint, that they should fire him

They have seen all they should need

Absolutely no time to waste, once the games to be played are meaningless

Time to move forward

Exactly. The sooner they fire him, Pascal and move Conroy to a different role, the sooner the new GM can go to work in the off season and draft. The ship is beyond the Titanic and I have zero confidence in Trelivings ability to build a new boat, let along a successful cruise line anytime soon.

The results speak for themself.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

Exactly. The sooner they fire him, Pascal and move Conroy to a different role, the sooner the new GM can go to work in the off season and draft. The ship is beyond the Titanic and I have zero confidence in Trelivings ability to build a new boat, let along a successful cruise line anytime soon.

The results speak for themself.

Nah, clean out the entire front office. No one has earned the right to stay. It really doesn't matter how much I liked Conroy on the ice and in interviews, this isn't an organization that has any reason to cling to the past.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

Exactly. The sooner they fire him, Pascal and move Conroy to a different role, the sooner the new GM can go to work in the off season and draft. The ship is beyond the Titanic and I have zero confidence in Trelivings ability to build a new boat, let along a successful cruise line anytime soon.

The results speak for themself.

Do you have any thoughts on who the new GM should be?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Do you have any thoughts on who the new GM should be?

Personally I acknowledge this is above my pay grade, but if I was a billionaire running a multi million dollar company I would have had someone tasked with this evaluation in preparation for now.

As time goes on, the situation in which you find yourself becomes more predictable than surprising, and at that point you are prepared

People don’t become billionaires by managing businesses at the same level of preparedness as an average hockey fan

[Jig]

Treveiling should not be fired but a president of hockey ops should be hired to make a decision on BT

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Do you have any thoughts on who the new GM should be?

Here is my take. Keep in mind. I am not a hired professional who is in charge of any decision making for an NHL club.

Truth be told, it depends. If Sutter is still here and doesn’t want a rebuild, then try and pry Lombardi to come. Yes, it’s a tough thing to do, as I am not even sure if he would want to be in Calgary.

Perhaps interview guys like Laurence Gilman, Mike Futa, Jason Karmanos, Chris McFarland or even Scott Mellanby. Leave no stone unturned.

There doesn’t seem to be many former experienced quality former GMs, so perhaps it’s ok to let a new blood try again. Yes, that is what Treliving was when he started and some may argue it’s best to let him continue his role. However, he has had seven years and the team is no better than when he started. Stagnant or is arguably worse. With no restrictions on the cap spending.

At this point, it wouldn’t even hurt to see what Mike Gillis is up to as well, if they want an experienced one. We really missed the boat on Hextall, even if it’s unlikely he would have come here.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Agreed and it does seem like that approach would pay off more in the long run. How many UFA deals would be classified as bad, average or good if one looked back. I haven't done the work but I bet it's something like 50% bad, 40% average and 10% good value.

Would also be interesting to go back and see what % of UFA deals lead to buyouts.

Have some more strict guard rails would seem to be effective. i have a budget in my job, but that doesn't mean I can spend it any way I want. And I certainly don't spend it all unless it's for good reason.

But again it comes down to the dynamics that we don't have visibility to.

Is it "Onwers: Brad we are giving you a full budget so we expect to compete"
Or is it "Brad: Owners in order to compete I need a full budget".

I suspect it is Brad asking for a full budget in order to compete or else just a general lack of planning by Brad. If he had the full budget he makes odd decisions in trying to compete. Leaving Tkachuk unsigned until his 3rd season likely drove up the cost of Tkachuk in the second contract. Having to go to arbitration with Mangiapane instead of having the salary room to sign him to a longterm deal is a choice by Brad.

The offseason that Brad blew his brains out with Neal was the offseason that he could have signed Tkachuk longterm. On July 1st of that year he could have signed Tkachuk to a 7 year contract if he wanted. Instead the next day he used the lions share of that future space on Neal. Even if he had a mandate from the team to spend to the cap, Brad has routinely made decisions on how to accomplish that mandate, such as signing UFA's to term.

But UFA's like Neal are not his most glaring weakness. A plan to goose the rebuild by trading future assets for present assets was always the weirdest part of his plan. Even if he had a mandate to win now, and he had a mandate to spend to the cap from the owners, it always would have made far more sense to keep all your picks and sign UFA's to fill the gaps to try to compete than burn future assets for present assets and use that cap space on those assets instead. Nobody in a rebuild will ever try to use that strategy that early in a rebuild ever again I suspect because it is patently absurd in a cap league. Only other team I can think of that has tried such a crazy strategy are the Houston Texans in the NFL and the Miami Dolphins thanked them yesterday for trying it (and indeed the Houston Texans are the laughing stock of the NFL).

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by nik-

If he even gets fired the Flames will wait too long for a new GM to get any traction towards a new direction for next season. The person will also be hired after a brutally unthorough hiring process of course.

Treliving should already be gone, but this organization loves to sit on its hands until it's way too late.

Doesn't mean that there isn't discussions happening behind the scene with Treliving's replacement if he is going to get the axe. It's possible for Flames to announce he's fired as soon as Flames are eliminated/season is over, and have the replacement named right after, or shortly afterwards.

That's what I hope is gonna happen. But who knows.

[Yoho]

Burke sure helped run this team into the ground with “quick rebuild” as Tre’s mentor.
I hope that doesn’t get lost in any of the fall out.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Doesn't mean that there isn't discussions happening behind the scene with Treliving's replacement if he is going to get the axe. It's possible for Flames to announce he's fired as soon as Flames are eliminated/season is over, and have the replacement named right after, or shortly afterwards.

That's what I hope is gonna happen. But who knows.

We fired Ward after a win and immediately named Darryl.

Could easily happen again in Tree’s situation.

[transplant99]

People still think Treliving is getting canned this year eh?

Highly unlikely.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Burke sure helped run this team into the ground with “quick rebuild” as Tre’s mentor.
I hope that doesn’t get lost in any of the fall out.

[ ] Feasters fault
[ ] Burkes fault
[ ] Owners fault
[x] Trelivings fault


One of the above has been the GM for 7 years. Let's stop making excuses.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by transplant99

People still think Treliving is getting canned this year eh?

Highly unlikely.

Lots of people on this forum were proclaiming Ward wasn't getting fired this season since Flames just re-signed him. And then it came out of nowhere.

I say it's honestly 50/50 if he stays or goes. There's a lot of merit in why he should be released, and based on the smoke of the Sutter hire with ownership, it's naïve to think it isn't a strong possibility.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Doesn't mean that there isn't discussions happening behind the scene with Treliving's replacement if he is going to get the axe. It's possible for Flames to announce he's fired as soon as Flames are eliminated/season is over, and have the replacement named right after, or shortly afterwards.

That's what I hope is gonna happen. But who knows.

I suspect this is highly unlikely. Treliving has two years left on his deal. We’re just coming off a season with 0 gate or concession revenues and there is no certainty towards what next year looks like either. At this point the likelihood of a full building in October looks pretty grim. Are we even going to get back to normal in 2022? That’s another discussion, so I’ll move on; how much is it going to cost the owners to cut ties with BT and hire a new GM? How does the uncertainty with the new arena effect their budget? And what are those expectations for a new GM? Permitting a new GM to rebuild would be a stark about face from this organization.

If Treliving was/is going to be dismissed, it should have happened alongside the Sutter hiring. That way the organization could have conducted their search and presumably put a plan together, or hear from a number of candidates as to what their plan would be. Then again, I find exceptionally hard to believe that Sutter would have come out of retirement if he didn’t know who the GM was, what the direction was going to be, and what level of input he was going to be granted with regard to roster construction. If that hasn’t started, the Flames are already well behind the 8 ball. Friedman stated recently that significant ground work for this offseason is already in place. Sure doesn’t sound like a change at the GM’s seat is in the cards to me.

Many are advocating for a change at the management level and immediate roster reconstruction. Both of those things won’t happen, it’s one or the other. One of the most common statements a new GM makes is they need time to enact their plan, of they want to see what they have, or this is going to be a process (sound familiar?). Based on the total lack of credible sources suggesting Treliving’s job is in jeopardy, I tend to think there is going to be a lot of disappointed posters here. I think the far more likely scenario is there will be roster reconstruction and Treliving has this next calendar year, more or less, to correct course.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I suspect this is highly unlikely. Treliving has two years left on his deal. We’re just coming off a season with 0 gate or concession revenues and there is no certainty towards what next year looks like either. At this point the likelihood of a full building in October looks pretty grim. Are we even going to get back to normal in 2022? That’s another discussion, so I’ll move on; how much is it going to cost the owners to cut ties with BT and hire a new GM? How does the uncertainty with the new arena effect their budget? And what are those expectations for a new GM? Permitting a new GM to rebuild would be a stark about face from this organization.

If Treliving was/is going to be dismissed, it should have happened alongside the Sutter hiring. That way the organization could have conducted their search and presumably put a plan together, or hear from a number of candidates as to what their plan would be. Then again, I find exceptionally hard to believe that Sutter would have come out of retirement if he didn’t know who the GM was, what the direction was going to be, and what level of input he was going to be granted with regard to roster construction. If that hasn’t started, the Flames are already well behind the 8 ball. Friedman stated recently that significant ground work for this offseason is already in place. Sure doesn’t sound like a change at the GM’s seat is in the cards to me.

Many are advocating for a change at the management level and immediate roster reconstruction. Both of those things won’t happen, it’s one or the other. One of the most common statements a new GM makes is they need time to enact their plan, of they want to see what they have, or this is going to be a process (sound familiar?). Based on the total lack of credible sources suggesting Treliving’s job is in jeopardy, I tend to think there is going to be a lot of disappointed posters here. I think the far more likely scenario is there will be roster reconstruction and Treliving has this next calendar year, more or less, to correct course.

I suspect the owners told Sutter what level of involvement he would have when they made the decision to hire him as head coach and fire Ward. When they informed Brad after that meeting that this was happening they likely filled him in on Darryl's level of involvement and input on roster decisions.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I suspect the owners told Sutter what level of involvement he would have when they made the decision to hire him as head coach and fire Ward. When they informed Brad after that meeting that this was happening they likely filled him in on Darryl's level of involvement and input on roster decisions.

Unlikely. Friedman has said the Flames have been talking to Sutter since the Peters situation was unfolding.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Unlikely. Friedman has said the Flames have been talking to Sutter since the Peters situation was unfolding.

I do agree that it is looking more and more unlikely that Brad gets canned. And he has a few tricks up his traditional sleeve to fast track the rebuild. He can move the 2021, 2022 or 2023 firsts and seconds for some current assets that could make the team better next year. He is very adept at making that move and it is a move that is a unique Calgary play that he could use.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Lots of people on this forum were proclaiming Ward wasn't getting fired this season since Flames just re-signed him. And then it came out of nowhere.

I say it's honestly 50/50 if he stays or goes. There's a lot of merit in why he should be released, and based on the smoke of the Sutter hire with ownership, it's naïve to think it isn't a strong possibility.

Im just looking at all the different factors and trying to connect the dots.

Firing Ward may or may not have come from ownership. I go back to what was said the day everything happened and the statement that Sutter was considered/approached last off season before Ward was chosen.

There could be so many reasons it didn't happen then, not the least of which was that COVID was still very much a huge concern as far as seeing and end game, transmission of it, vaccines were a ways off etc. Chris Sutter is very much in the high danger area when it comes to getting infected and there is zero question in my mind that would have been Sutters primary concern at the time. Easy to understand how he would decline then but change his mind months later.

Then there is BT's contract. Year 1 right now. No coincidence that his and Sutters both expire at the same time. Is ownership willing to pay BT 2 more years of not working for the club? Particularly after an entire season of what...50% normal revenue. Several million dollars invloved there, and even more if Sutter is let go as well, which when hiring a new GM is a large possibility if the new hire wants a blank slate to work with.

Biggest signal to me though is why would you not fire BT when Ward was let go if you planned on doing so this year? If you were unhappy enough to make that decision to interfere and tell him to fire Ward and hire Sutter (still dont believe thats what happened but many do) then why would you leave him in place through trade deadlines AND the most precarious time ever to prepare for the draft (trade talks more than draft strategy)? Then wait til season end and send all that out the door as a new guy comes in with zero dialogue among other teams GM's that had laid the groundwork for moves that arre going to happen in a couple months.

Additionally, any new hire in the GM chair is going to want to see what he has in house before making a bunch of moves right after being hired. A minor move here or there...sure. But when it comes to guys like JG,SM, MT or others, then they need to know what is going out as much as what may be coming back before pulling the trigger on such deals. A full read on his NHL players, AHL players, NCAA/Junior/Euros, all has to be part of decisions moving forward. Only the guys in place right noew have that info.

I am not advocating they keep BT. I am trying to look at it from ownerships perspective and what is best for both the bottom line and for the club moving forward. When I add all that up, it looks to me like it will be status quo in the management area for at least one more full season with BT making changes this summer, giving Sutter a full TC with the players, and see what you really have.

Is it possible he gets canned in a couple weeks? Absolutely it is, it just doesn't seem likely.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Jacks

[ ] Feasters fault
[ ] Burkes fault
[ ] Owners fault
[x] Trelivings fault


One of the above has been the GM for 7 years. Let's stop making excuses.

Burke was Pres. for most of that. No one should say it’s owners fault unless they were directly meddling.