[News] CalgaryNEXT Announcement. New arena details emerge.

[Robbob]

There was something done 4 years ago that was the arena only. KK mentioned he has those rending or drawing in his office.

I think this announcement was more about the idea to test the waters if something like this could happen in the WV. I don't think they are all in. In our STH event (someone correct me if I misheard) they mentioned if it goes forward that the architectural firms would be contracted to continue to work on it. I'm no expert but that kind of tells me that a lot of this was preliminary. I think what is done or further along is the arena. KK mentioned that he took a VR tour through it. He also mentioned that they took a boom or lift to where the worst seat in the house would be in comparison to the current arena. The distance closer to the ice was from him to the parking lot (we were in the Archie Boyce theatre at the time so I would guess 30ish meters).

[Muta]

Originally Posted by morgin

Without intending to specifically direct this at you, as I was very happy to get your updates when available, I do have to say the above is what leaves me a bit confused. I also apologize if I'm treading over covered ground as I've not read this whole thread. Based on what everyone involved was saying, KK especially, and the tidbits we got from the leaks, I don't think it's wrong to suggest that this seems a bit underwhelming. What we have in front of us now is the absolute bare minimum that I would have expected this project to include. All of the funding issues and contamination issues and pure political issues aside, I'm wondering if I'm missing something on why this is so impressive. It's one building with an arena and a convertible field house. No details on how the arena design might be beyond state of the art, no details on their vision for the waterfront and integration with the community. Just a lot of "yadda yadda that will come" and hand waving over the renderings being early. I mean, I do know a bit about development work, and given they started talking new arena in 2006-2007 or so, I just don't really understand what the reason for revealing this was at this stage. They could have shown this off 4 years ago as I'm sure they knew everything they've told us then. Or they could have gotten further in the planning stages and tried to use the wow factor of what the buildings would actually look like and function like to try and sell the public. This is some weird limp in between.

No worries. I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of the design that was released, I'm not even part of that scene. You have to understand, though, that a sports complex tying in an arena and a football stadium / fieldhouse into one massive building is incredibly ambitious. From a construction and development standpoint, it's pretty much new territory. We're getting that here in Calgary.

As for the design that people see, I highly doubt that's the final scheme that we see. It's so early in the process these things can massively change. I've seen that before, many times, on other large projects.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I'm no expert but that kind of tells me that a lot of this was preliminary.

Exactly.

[Bill Bumface]

I've tried to think about this objectively, but I still can't get past the fact that the field-house being combined with a stadium is a compromise for both.

[Enoch Root]

Yeah, this isn't the first rodeo for the boys over at CalgaryNext.

I suspect that they understated things purposely. That they are phasing their plans in as part of an overall plan of attack.

Get something out that's enough to get people excited (with the idea) and talking - get the process going.

Wait through the initial outcry from the 'no tax money for billionaires' crowd.

Find what sticks, and what doesn't

Then move forward with compromises and improved/refined ideas.

You don't want to shoot all your bullets at the front wall.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well I didn't design the thing. I'm not even involved with that. It's the size, scope and vision of the project that I implied were impressive. I've also seen other iterations, not just the one that was shown. Design is your own interpretation, too, and I'll leave that up to the individual.

Personally the only thing I find that has some vision is the idea of combining all the facilities into one to save on costs. That's an interesting, if not completely original, idea. Asking the city to give you free land and pay for most of it took some vision (and balls!) too I guess. Other than that, Im not sure there's a ton to be impressed with right now, especially since everything from the community planning to financing leaves a lot to be desired. That's why Im surprised that they didn't at least give us a totally drool-worthy rendering to give something for people to latch onto.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, this isn't the first rodeo for the boys over at CalgaryNext.

Isn't it though? How many development projects has Ken King spearheaded, or even been a part of?

[JBR]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, this isn't the first rodeo for the boys over at CalgaryNext.

I suspect that they understated things purposely. That they are phasing their plans in as part of an overall plan of attack.

Get something out that's enough to get people excited (with the idea) and talking - get the process going.

Wait through the initial outcry from the 'no tax money for billionaires' crowd.

Find what sticks, and what doesn't

Then move forward with compromises and improved/refined ideas.

You don't want to shoot all your bullets at the front wall.

Agreed. I think this is exactly what is happening. Float it out there for reactions and to start a discussion.

We are a long way from finalized plans. Keep thinking back to the toilet bowl in Edmonton compared to what they're building now.

Once this gets some serious traction, and I believe it will, we will start to see new plans of the area that may include tunnelling WB Bow Trail, improved river access and new amenities, plans to improve the Bow/Crow corridor, detailed building designs and plans for an expanded arena district where the Mercedes dealership currently sits.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

The City envisioned CRL in West Village?

Yeah. Notwithstanding the Flames proposal, it's slated for the same kind of development as the East Village once East Village starts getting saturated.

[morgin]

Originally Posted by JBR

Agreed. I think this is exactly what is happening. Float it out there for reactions and to start a discussion.

We are a long way from finalized plans. Keep thinking back to the toilet bowl in Edmonton compared to what they're building now.

Once this gets some serious traction, and I believe it will, we will start to see new plans of the area that may include tunnelling WB Bow Trail, improved river access and new amenities, plans to improve the Bow/Crow corridor, detailed building designs and plans for an expanded arena district where the Mercedes dealership currently sits.

I totally assume both of you are right.

I guess that just leaves me wondering why it was such a huge deal for KK and he built it up as being this incredible vision that would blow us all away. If they had come to the table with all of that figured out and concrete plans and ideas for the entire redevelopment, then fine. I get saving it as a big reveal. Given how much it was talked up and the kind of meh result we see when it's actually shown, at least from my perspective as someone who really did want to be wowed, I just don't see why we got blue balled on tbe announcement for years and years.

[JBR]

Fair point.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Personally the only thing I find that has some vision is the idea of combining all the facilities into one to save on costs. That's an interesting, if not completely original, idea. Asking the city to give you free land and pay for most of it took some vision (and balls!) too I guess. Other than that, Im not sure there's a ton to be impressed with right now, especially since everything from the community planning to financing leaves a lot to be desired. That's why Im surprised that they didn't at least give us a totally drool-worthy rendering to give something for people to latch onto.



Isn't it though? How many development projects has Ken King spearheaded, or even been a part of?

Are you under the impression that he is working alone on this?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by morgin

I totally assume both of you are right.

I guess that just leaves me wondering why it was such a huge deal for KK and he built it up as being this incredible vision that would blow us all away. If they had come to the table with all of that figured out and concrete plans and ideas for the entire redevelopment, then fine. I get saving it as a big reveal. Given how much it was talked up and the kind of meh result we see when it's actually shown, at least from my perspective as someone who really did want to be wowed, I just don't see why we got blue balled on tbe announcement for years and years.

Yeah, I think a lot of people feel similarly.

And I sure won't pretend to know their plan. But this is a long way from over.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Are you under the impression that he is working alone on this?

That would go a ways to explaining how long it took to finally reveal it.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I've tried to think about this objectively, but I still can't get past the fact that the field-house being combined with a stadium is a compromise for both.

I specifically asked KK about this at the presentation and he confirmed that the Fieldhouse plans incorporated everything that was in the original foothills design. Nothing was scaled back or left out.

Jason Zaran, the chair of the CMFS agreed, and that's what sold me on the plan.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by Robbob

There was something done 4 years ago that was the arena only. KK mentioned he has those rending or drawing in his office.

I think this announcement was more about the idea to test the waters if something like this could happen in the WV. I don't think they are all in. In our STH event (someone correct me if I misheard) they mentioned if it goes forward that the architectural firms would be contracted to continue to work on it. I'm no expert but that kind of tells me that a lot of this was preliminary. I think what is done or further along is the arena. KK mentioned that he took a VR tour through it. He also mentioned that they took a boom or lift to where the worst seat in the house would be in comparison to the current arena. The distance closer to the ice was from him to the parking lot (we were in the Archie Boyce theatre at the time so I would guess 30ish meters).

King was talking about an ambitious multiplex that was being designed in Europe which is what NEXT will be based on.

It sounds exciting!

[Scary Eloranta]

Originally Posted by craigwd

King was talking about an ambitious multiplex that was being designed in Europe which is what NEXT will be based on.

It sounds exciting!

I wonder if he was talking about VBT in Moscow?

http://www.manicaarchitecture.com/pr...vtb-arena-park

... its actually under construction.

[craigwd]

He likely was but just didn't mention it by name.
King just referred to it as a one of a kind complex that would be the first of it's kind in the world.

But VTB and NEXT share a lot of similar features - abundant green spaces, shops, courtyards as well as the sporting zones.

That is the selling feature for the city; a brand new, ambitious community. That's was Live Work Play is about.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Scary Eloranta

I wonder if he was talking about VBT in Moscow?

http://www.manicaarchitecture.com/pr...vtb-arena-park

... its actually under construction.

That Manica architecture site has some pretty cool designs. Those are the sorts of designs that might inspire Calgarians to consider the upside of WV. Hopefully we'll see something like that soon.

[SebC]

http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/09/06...n-west-village

Two firms have been shortlisted by Calgary Municipal Land Corporation to explore what remediation is needed to develop the creosote contaminated West Village.

CMLC president and CEO Michael Brown said he hopes to have the final choice made by the end of the month.

I'm not clear on how they have money for this, since there's no West Village CRL and presumably the EV CRL funds are benchmarked for EV. Borrowing against the future CRL? Direct funding? Simply not paying anything yet?

[Fire It Up]

Further to some of the points made above on the creosote cleanup, does anyone have a reasonable idea of the process. For example, if the Province or City seek a polluter pay scenario, can they still go ahead and clean it up without delay then turn around and sue the polluter and flip them the bill when all is said and done? Otherwise, litigation to iron this out could take years.