2013/14 General Heat Discussion Thread

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Both aren't big, so they might not translate to the NHL well, but both guys play good three-zone defensive games.

6'1" 190lbs for Kulak
6'2" 200lbs for Culkin

...at least according to the WHL & QJMHL websites.

If true, they both have NHL frames, and are still young enough to fill out over the next few years.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Drury18

Congrats to Dean Arsene. He and his wife Alex welcomed a baby boy this morning!

Playoff babies as said to be good luck

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

For me, I'd probably put Kanzig as the better prospect as he has the size to make his game work. Sieloff is a 6' defenceman which is small for a defenceman, yet his game is based on his hitting. I don't know if it will transfer to the NHL. So far he couldn't play a full season in junior which makes me more dubious of his upside. He's young yet so I hope he proves me wrong. Maybe he can become another Scott Hannan but even he had 43 points one year in Kelowna.

He's the same size as Kronwall. To me that is his best comparable. A less skilled Kronwall. Mike Peca was one of the most feared hitters of the previous generation and he was only 5'11. Scott Stevens was only 6'1 IIRC. Hitting isn't necessarily about height but more about mass and timing.

He's not at all like Sarich IMO. He is naturally more physical than Sarich was. He's a lot faster. And I think more skilled as well.

[Drury18]

Not a huge surprise. Too many bodies, not enough space:

@abbotsfordheat: #AHLHeat have assigned D Zach Davies to the @AlaskaAces and released F Jordan Kremyr.

[SHOGUN]

Everyone seems to forget... what the hell happened to John Ramage? How's his development going in the ECHL? Is he behind Kanzig and Sieoff in terms of our depth?

[icarus]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

Everyone seems to forget... what the hell happened to John Ramage? How's his development going in the ECHL? Is he behind Kanzig and Sieoff in terms of our depth?

From the Alaska playoffs thread, Ramage's stats through the Aces first round sweep:
Ramage 2G, 3A, 18SOG - 4GP

Athntk can probably paint a fuller picture.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

Everyone seems to forget... what the hell happened to John Ramage? How's his development going in the ECHL? Is he behind Kanzig and Sieoff in terms of our depth?

Sieloff may have played some games in the NHL this season if he hadn't been sidelined with the infection. He's one of I've top two d-man prospects and way ahead of Ramage.

Kanzig is waaaay younger than Ramage and I believe still has to go back to junior next season so tough to compare them. But based on Ramage's struggles, Kanzig's improvement and the fact we took him too three rounds in a deep draft I would think long term he may be ahead of Ramage.

Hard not to be a bit down on Ramage after this season. He's average size and doesn't dominate the game in any area. But it sounds like he's having a strong playoff so perhaps not all hope should be list.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

Everyone seems to forget... what the hell happened to John Ramage? How's his development going in the ECHL? Is he behind Kanzig and Sieoff in terms of our depth?

The Heat are stacked with defensemen of his ilk, so he was sent to Alaska to get more playing time. It's better for his development than the press box

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

The Heat are stacked with defensemen of his ilk, so he was sent to Alaska to get more playing time. It's better for his development than the press box

He played plenty of minutes for a good while with the Heat. I think the issue was his offensive game. He needed to work on that aspect and the ECHL is the perfect spot to help his confidence. The fact that he's done so well in his short time there leads me to believe management made the right choice and are continuing to develop Ramage, not trying to write him off or bury him somewhere.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Regehr and Sarich are two dedicated stay at home D men in Flames recent history. Warrener is another.

They all had MUCH better production than Kanzig and Sieloff in junior.

I think it is a mistake to say that a lack of offensive production in junior is okay for players that project to be defensive players. Players with NHL potential are generally good enough in junior, and have enough acumen, that they put up a reasonable number of points.

There are VERY few players that have the level of junior production of Sieloff and Kanzig and actually make the NHL. I am sure there are examples, but I haven't found any.

Both players are incredible long shots to make the NHL. I am cheering for them. But unfortunately history just doesn't support them making it.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

Just did a quick look, found a poll regarding the top "Defensive defensemen" on each NHL team this season. I'd have to say I disagree with a few, but I used it none the less just for comparison sake.
8 of 30 players (26.7%) listed as their teams best defensive defenseman had Junior or Euro league (age 22 and under) point production of 0.30ppg or less. 4 were 0.20ppg or less.

Hjalmarsson was a 0.12ppg in 63 games in SEL and SWE-1
Jan Hejda was 0.13ppg in 111 games (age 18-22) in the Czech league
Niklas Kronwall was 0.27ppg in 166 games in SEL
Ladislav Smid was a 0.06ppg in 88 games in Czech league
Mike Weaver was 0.29ppg in 163 games in CCHA
Bryce Salvador was 0.28ppg in 311 Games in WHL
Kimmo Timonen was 0.17ppg in 129 games in SM. Liiga
Victor Hedman was 0.30ppg in 82 games in SEL

There are another 7 on that list (50% of the list) that were 0.50ppg or less including Chara, Myers, R. Suter, S. Weber, Girardi, Orpik and Alzner.

I'd say junior production really doesn't mean much when it comes to translating to the NHL, seeing as half of the top ranked "defensive defensemen" this year really didn't put up huge offensive numbers in Junior or Euro leagues, but have obviously transitioned quite well to the NHL, just like offensive players in junior may not necessarily be anything special in the NHL.

And really, when the Flames are looking to fill the hole of a physical stay at home guy, why are you looking at offensive production anyway? We already have Gio, Brodie, Russell and Wideman as offensive D-men. If Kanzig and Sieloff are more closely comparable to Smid on our roster, I would say that's a good thing.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

He played plenty of minutes for a good while with the Heat. I think the issue was his offensive game. He needed to work on that aspect and the ECHL is the perfect spot to help his confidence. The fact that he's done so well in his short time there leads me to believe management made the right choice and are continuing to develop Ramage, not trying to write him off or bury him somewhere.

That was kind of what I meant when I said the Heat were loaded with defensemen of his ilk. Breen, O'Brien, Arsene, Sieloff (when healthy) and even Wotherspoon play similar roles as stay at home defensive defensemen. The only reason Davies and LaFranchise got opportunities is because they are better at moving the puck and creating offense.

[getbak]

Tweet from a sports reporter in the Albany area...

Mark Mulholland ‏@MulhollandWNYT

Sources: Glens Falls to get Calgary's AHL team. Contract being finalized now. Announcement will follow next week.

Not surprising, if true. Bring on the Adirondack Flames.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by wretched34

Just did a quick look, found a poll regarding the top "Defensive defensemen" on each NHL team this season. I'd have to say I disagree with a few, but I used it none the less just for comparison sake.
8 of 30 players (26.7%) listed as their teams best defensive defenseman had Junior or Euro league (age 22 and under) point production of 0.30ppg or less. 4 were 0.20ppg or less.

Hjalmarsson was a 0.12ppg in 63 games in SEL and SWE-1
Jan Hejda was 0.13ppg in 111 games (age 18-22) in the Czech league
Niklas Kronwall was 0.27ppg in 166 games in SEL
Ladislav Smid was a 0.06ppg in 88 games in Czech league
Mike Weaver was 0.29ppg in 163 games in CCHA
Bryce Salvador was 0.28ppg in 311 Games in WHL
Kimmo Timonen was 0.17ppg in 129 games in SM. Liiga
Victor Hedman was 0.30ppg in 82 games in SEL

There are another 7 on that list (50% of the list) that were 0.50ppg or less including Chara, Myers, R. Suter, S. Weber, Girardi, Orpik and Alzner.

I'd say junior production really doesn't mean much when it comes to translating to the NHL, seeing as half of the top ranked "defensive defensemen" this year really didn't put up huge offensive numbers in Junior or Euro leagues, but have obviously transitioned quite well to the NHL, just like offensive players in junior may not necessarily be anything special in the NHL.

And really, when the Flames are looking to fill the hole of a physical stay at home guy, why are you looking at offensive production anyway? We already have Gio, Brodie, Russell and Wideman as offensive D-men. If Kanzig and Sieloff are more closely comparable to Smid on our roster, I would say that's a good thing.

That's great work. But the four under 0.2 weren't playing junior. Kanzig is around 0.07 PPG and Sieloff is about 0.16 PPG in legitimate junior leagues. Kanzig has shown almost no progression in this area and Sieloff spent a prime development season injured.

No matter how you slice it, if they make it they are the extreme outliers. Doesn't mean I am writing them off or not cheering for them. Just stating the facts.

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by getbak

Tweet from a sports reporter in the Albany area...

Not surprising, if true. Bring on the Adirondack Flames.

Go Strata!

It sounds like the most ideal place for the team to move.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by wretched34

Just did a quick look, found a poll regarding the top "Defensive defensemen" on each NHL team this season. I'd have to say I disagree with a few, but I used it none the less just for comparison sake.
8 of 30 players (26.7%) listed as their teams best defensive defenseman had Junior or Euro league (age 22 and under) point production of 0.30ppg or less. 4 were 0.20ppg or less.

Hjalmarsson was a 0.12ppg in 63 games in SEL and SWE-1
Jan Hejda was 0.13ppg in 111 games (age 18-22) in the Czech league
Niklas Kronwall was 0.27ppg in 166 games in SEL
Ladislav Smid was a 0.06ppg in 88 games in Czech league
Mike Weaver was 0.29ppg in 163 games in CCHA
Bryce Salvador was 0.28ppg in 311 Games in WHL
Kimmo Timonen was 0.17ppg in 129 games in SM. Liiga
Victor Hedman was 0.30ppg in 82 games in SEL

There are another 7 on that list (50% of the list) that were 0.50ppg or less including Chara, Myers, R. Suter, S. Weber, Girardi, Orpik and Alzner.

I'd say junior production really doesn't mean much when it comes to translating to the NHL, seeing as half of the top ranked "defensive defensemen" this year really didn't put up huge offensive numbers in Junior or Euro leagues, but have obviously transitioned quite well to the NHL, just like offensive players in junior may not necessarily be anything special in the NHL.

And really, when the Flames are looking to fill the hole of a physical stay at home guy, why are you looking at offensive production anyway? We already have Gio, Brodie, Russell and Wideman as offensive D-men. If Kanzig and Sieloff are more closely comparable to Smid on our roster, I would say that's a good thing.

You can't compare the European leagues to junior. Its much tougher to get points in European leagues.

[herashak]

Yeah how are gonna compare SEL to WHL

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

You can't compare the European leagues to junior. Its much tougher to get points in European leagues.

In no way trying to compare European leagues to Junior leagues.
Simply showing that players listed as their teams best "defensive" defensemen, aren't always big point producers in their early years (22 and under), which is what my initial post was responding too. Criticism that Kanzig and Sieloff aren't very good prospects, because their junior point production isn't very good.

[Drury18]

[Righteous1]

no poirier in tonights game?

[Drury18]

Poirier was scratched for Corban Knight. He was put into the lineup for Games 2 and 3 due to an injury to Knight.