Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by $ven27

Why? Is it the type of style they're taught over there or simply bad luck?

Nemo was in a scoring slump and Barkov wanted to help him.

Seriously, some kind of mistake I suppose.

(OT, but Nemo fans from 2004 should check him out at 2:00 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb9polqcH40 )

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by $ven27

Why? Is it the type of style they're taught over there or simply bad luck?

Okay now my drunken mind has understood what you were asking. I wasn't being entirely serious, but if someone points out the Finland hasn't produced a lot of top scorers, it's tough to argue against it. But of course if we're being adults, we can't judge any individual's abilities based on his passport either.

There's always been talk that the development system in Finland stresses team play too strongly and somehow fails to encourage individual skill, but I have no idea. I feel that there's been much more skill in recent years.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Okay now my drunken mind has understood what you were asking. I wasn't being entirely serious, but if someone points out the Finland hasn't produced a lot of top scorers, it's tough to argue against it. But of course if we're being adults, we can't judge any individual's abilities based on his passport either.

There's always been talk that the development system in Finland stresses team play too strongly and somehow fails to encourage individual skill, but I have no idea. I feel that there's been much more skill in recent years.

That is a big selling point. Developing under a strong team structure serves only as a benefit at the NHL level. Allows the player to come in and finish developing the individual game while the team structure is ingrained already.

If a player being developed under this structure is already producing in a positive manner, it serves as a strong indicator that as he matures he will get stronger. Further solidifies my belief that Barkov is number one for the Flames.

[drPepper1]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

What does that have to do with Barkov?

I guess Sven was obviously a mistake, then.

Sven isn't a proven star yet, he isn't a centre and he's already having injury issues.

[Ashasx]

I will say with confidence that Sven will be considered the best Swiss player ever in 2 seasons.

[drPepper1]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Okay now my drunken mind has understood what you were asking. I wasn't being entirely serious, but if someone points out the Finland hasn't produced a lot of top scorers, it's tough to argue against it. But of course if we're being adults, we can't judge any individual's abilities based on his passport either.

There's always been talk that the development system in Finland stresses team play too strongly and somehow fails to encourage individual skill, but I have no idea. I feel that there's been much more skill in recent years.

Russians always seem to get judged for lack of heart, and commitment to the team.

The Finnish system has its strengths, but the center position is not their best. I don't think Barkov will be a franchise center, and I'm sure he'll be decent. Just feel like he's being overrated for his size.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by drPepper1

Russians always seem to get judged for lack of heart, and commitment to the team.

The Finnish system has its strengths, but the center position is not their best. I don't think Barkov will be a franchise center, and I'm sure he'll be decent. Just feel like he's being overrated for his size.

You're focusing too much on the nationality though. When scouts watch a player, they're watching an individual and evaluating the abilities that the player actually, concretely has. They don't deal in generalities. If they see a player has certain qualities, they won't discount them based on where the player plays. Barkov's skill won't disappear because he's Finnish.

It's a very simplistic view you're taking. You don't know the player too well but you're ready to dismiss him based on his nationality.

Anyway, Barkov has broken every record for a player of his age in Finland. You think what other players have done is relevant when talking about his personal traits or achievements? I don't understand that mentality. You're not drafting Finland, you're not drafting a system, you're drafting Aleksander Barkov.

[FlameZilla]

If Barkov falls to where we are drafting I think we have to take him. He slots straight into the lineup. It's absurd that people think Finland doesn't produce scoring talent. Teemu Selanne might be the most naturally gifted pure sniper of the modern era. Esa Tikkanen & Jari Kurri each put up over 1.00 PPG careers (albeit many of them on a line with Gretzky). If we take him, Lindholm or Monahan (Mackinnon if we win the lotto 649) then we're laughing.

[bucksmasher]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

You're focusing too much on the nationality though. When scouts watch a player, they're watching an individual and evaluating the abilities that the player actually, concretely has. They don't deal in generalities. If they see a player has certain qualities, they won't discount them based on where the player plays. Barkov's skill won't disappear because he's Finnish.

It's a very simplistic view you're taking. You don't know the player too well but you're ready to dismiss him based on his nationality.

Anyway, Barkov has broken every record for a player of his age in Finland. You think what other players have done is relevant when talking about his personal traits or achievements? I don't understand that mentality. You're not drafting Finland, you're not drafting a system, you're drafting Aleksander Barkov.

we aren't

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

If Barkov falls to where we are drafting I think we have to take him. He slots straight into the lineup. It's absurd that people think Finland doesn't produce scoring talent. Teemu Selanne might be the most naturally gifted pure sniper of the modern era. Esa Tikkanen & Jari Kurri each put up over 1.00 PPG careers (albeit many of them on a line with Gretzky). If we take him, Lindholm or Monahan (Mackinnon if we win the lotto 649) then we're laughing.

Nationality feels relevant only when you don't have much concrete information to work with. Whatever Barkov is, he is what he is as an individual. He's not a historical trend. He's a player who actually has certain abilities regardless of how many others like him there have been before. LA didn't draft the Slovenian development system when they chose Kopitar. They were looking at an individual. What happens in Slovenia in general is irrelevant if you have actual information at your disposal.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

If Barkov falls to where we are drafting I think we have to take him. He slots straight into the lineup. It's absurd that people think Finland doesn't produce scoring talent. Teemu Selanne might be the most naturally gifted pure sniper of the modern era. Esa Tikkanen & Jari Kurri each put up over 1.00 PPG careers (albeit many of them on a line with Gretzky). If we take him, Lindholm or Monahan (Mackinnon if we win the lotto 649) then we're laughing.

.718 PPG career and only twice had a PPG season.

I agree though, Barkov is 4th on my list and we take him if he is there at out pick, no questions.

[sergei_makarov]

So with the Canes down by 2 in the third to Pittsburgh... Calgary will draft 6th, 7th or 1st.

Jones (D), Nichushkin (LW), Nurse (D), Monohan (C), or Lindholm (C).

Not bad... I think they draft Monohan.

[nik-]

So, for those in the Lindholm camp who are worried he goes 5th (I am firmly in this camp), do the Canes really draft a center at 5? I could see them doing it for a clear cut BPA, but it's not exactly a team need since they have both Staals.

[Hockey_Ninja]

My final assesment: If we win the lottery then take Mackinnon although i wouldn't be too upset with Jones. If we pick 6th then Monahan or Lindholm (depending on which one is avaliable), if we pic 7th and Monahan and Lindholm are gone, then go with the BPA. Even if it is Nichushkin.

[The Yen Man]

Barring a favorable outcome from the draft lottery, looks like the Flames keep their never drafted in the top 5 record alive.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by sergei_makarov

So with the Canes down by 2 in the third to Pittsburgh... Calgary will draft 6th, 7th or 1st.

Jones (D), Nichushkin (LW), Nurse (D), Monohan (C), or Lindholm (C).

Not bad... I think they draft Monohan.

If we win the lottery I would look to trade down 1 spot if Florida wanted jones. Then pick Mackinnon.

[Henry Fool]

I'm not particularly disappointed although it's always better to have more options. We don't know who the best player in the 4-7th pick range will be.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

I'm not particularly disappointed although it's always better to have more options. We don't know who the best player in the 4-7th pick range will be.

Exactly, in this range it's a wash between the options. It's just so hard to predict who's going to be the best of Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan and Nichushkin.

[GGG]

Assuming Florida wins the Lottery I think the first round goes like this
Florida - Jones
Colorado - Druin Center position is locked up but really need a defensemen
Tampa Makinnon - this is not fair. Stamkos Makinnon as one two
Nashville - Barkov
Carolina - Nurse
Flames - Lindholm / Monaham.

I dont see anyone trading down here accept a swap between Florida and Colorado. As Colorado despartely needs Jones though Florida likely does too.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by nik-

So, for those in the Lindholm camp who are worried he goes 5th (I am firmly in this camp), do the Canes really draft a center at 5? I could see them doing it for a clear cut BPA, but it's not exactly a team need since they have both Staals.

I think Nurse goes top 5. Nashville and Carolina need help on D, Tampa I see taking Drouin.

I think there will be some wheeling & dealing. Whoever wins the lottery will have a phone call from the Avs.

1) Florida: Jones
2) Colorado: Mackinnon
3) Tampa: Drouin
4) Nashville: Barkov
5) Carolina: Nurse