2011 NFL thread

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Sowa

And Welker enabled NE to do this thus revolutionizing his position. Who was the slot receiver under Belichek before Welker? Bet you can't name him without googling.

Can you?

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Can you?

Other than Deion Branch, and Troy Brown, I bet most people who weren't Patriot fans can remember who the Patriot receivers were when they were winning Superbowls. A NFL fan with a good memory might remember Patton or Givens, even that's a stretch.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The entire NFL has changed. Remember when 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 3 was a running down? Now it's almost 100% a throwing down and smaller players like Welker are benefiting.

A lot of that is because of 3-4 defensive schemes. A guy like Welker can get away from a middle linebacker for that kind of gain, so long as he can withstand a hit, and has the courage to go into that area of the field.

The game goes in cycles...years ago the FB and TE were a thing of the past the run and shoot was here to stay. Today the TE is as prominent as I can remember. Teams still employ full backs. As defense starts going to smaller quicker guys in the middle, you'll probably see the power running games brought out to exploit the size matchup advantage.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by valo403

Can you?

No and that's my point. It obviously isn't Belichek and NE's scheme alone that makes Welker an amazing receiver otherwise the slot receiver before him would be well known and would have dominated.

[dirk diggler]

Welker is a great reciever, people that point out that he is good only because of Brady dont know football. i guess Jerry Rice wasnt great, after all he had Montana/Young throwing him the ball?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Sowa

And Welker enabled NE to do this thus revolutionizing his position. Who was the slot receiver under Belichek before Welker? Bet you can't name him without googling.

Wasn't your Wayne Chrebet the first prominent slot receiver? It's a pretty new position and role to compare that far back.

119 catches sure but they're all 5 yards.

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

Welker is a great reciever, people that point out that he is good only because of Brady dont know football. i guess Jerry Rice wasnt great, after all he had Montana/Young throwing him the ball?

Really!?

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

A lot of that is because of 3-4 defensive schemes. A guy like Welker can get away from a middle linebacker for that kind of gain, so long as he can withstand a hit, and has the courage to go into that area of the field.

The game goes in cycles...years ago the FB and TE were a thing of the past the run and shoot was here to stay. Today the TE is as prominent as I can remember. Teams still employ full backs. As defense starts going to smaller quicker guys in the middle, you'll probably see the power running games brought out to exploit the size matchup advantage.

Yup also because of the defenseless receiver penalty. Safeties can't take off the heads of receivers running slants anymore.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Brandon Stokley was one of the first prominent slot receivers.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Wasn't your Wayne Chrebet the first prominent slot receiver? It's a pretty new position and role to compare that far back.

Don't have to compare that far back. Welker first season as a Patriot was 07 and he had 112 catches. They certainly didn't create a scheme for a guy whose career to that point had been nothing special so who was the slot guy with 100+ catches on the Pats in 06?

119 catches sure but they're all 5 yards.

Averages 13 yds/catch

Yup also because of the defenseless receiver penalty. Safeties can't take off the heads of receivers running slants anymore.

Welker doesn't get just linebackers and safeties. More often than not he is facing the opposing teams top corner.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Sowa

No and that's my point. It obviously isn't Belichek and NE's scheme alone that makes Welker an amazing receiver otherwise the slot receiver before him would be well known and would have dominated.

Yeah that's such a flawed way of looking at it. As Sylvan said above the emergence of that type of player has to do with things like changing defensive schemes and new offensive schemes. Welker obviously fills that role very well, but let's not pretend that Wes Welker showed up one day and changed football.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

Welker is a great reciever, people that point out that he is good only because of Brady dont know football. i guess Jerry Rice wasnt great, after all he had Montana/Young throwing him the ball?

Rice wouldn't have had nearly the numbers he did without great QB's, that doesn't make him less of a receiver, it simply recognizes that football is a sport that involves reliance upon others for individuals to excel.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Don't have to compare that far back. Welker first season as a Patriot was 07 and he had 112 catches. They certainly didn't create a scheme for a guy whose career to that point had been nothing special so who was the slot guy with 100+ catches on the Pats in 06?

Averages 13 yds/catch

Welker doesn't get just linebackers and safeties. More often than not he is facing the opposing teams top corner.

13 yds/catch that's inflated when a couple of them go for 99 yards.

The slot receiver in 2006 would be Cadwell with 70odd catches. I'm just guessing. It served them quite well until they lost in the AFC Championship.
I don't think anyone in the NFL had 100 catches in 2006 so I think your question is moot. Teams just didn't throw the ball as much. So they did create a scheme for a guy whose career to that point had been nothing special

Obviously Welker is better than Cadwell so they went and got him. No idea why the Dolphins traded him or couldn't come up with a scheme for him.
The beginning of 2007 once Brady and Welker got a good relationship going and other defenses couldn't match up, they kept going to it. Having Randy Moss double covered also helped too.

Originally Posted by valo403

Yeah that's such a flawed way of looking at it. As Sylvan said above the emergence of that type of player has to do with things like changing defensive schemes and new offensive schemes. Welker obviously fills that role very well, but let's not pretend that Wes Welker showed up one day and changed football.

Exactly. In fact all football change at the same time led by coaches like Bellichick who exploited back secondaries and the lax defensive rules. Welker was/is a nice tool to have to implement such a scheme.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

13 yds/catch that's inflated when a couple of them go for 99 yards.

The slot receiver in 2006 would be Cadwell with 70odd catches. I'm just guessing. It served them quite well until they lost in the AFC Championship.
I don't think anyone in the NFL had 100 catches in 2006 so I think your question is moot. Teams just didn't throw the ball as much. So they did create a scheme for a guy whose career to that point had been nothing special

Obviously Welker is better than Cadwell so they went and got him. No idea why the Dolphins traded him or couldn't come up with a scheme for him.
The beginning of 2007 once Brady and Welker got a good relationship going and other defenses couldn't match up, they kept going to it. Having Randy Moss double covered also helped too.



Exactly. In fact all football change at the same time led by coaches like Bellichick who exploited back secondaries and the lax defensive rules. Welker was/is a nice tool to have to implement such a scheme.

Because they are the Dolphins and they are incompetent. I hate being a fan of that team.

[troutman]

A Final Four of GB, NO, NE and PIT? Rodgers, Brees, Brady and Ben.

You need an elite QB (or a top defence) to be a contender.

This is why teams like CLE should keep drafting QBs until they hit the jackpot. OK QBs like Colt McCoy aren't going to get the job done.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by troutman

A Final Four of GB, NO, NE and PIT? Rodgers, Brees, Brady and Ben.

You need an elite QB (or a top defence) to be a contender.

This is why teams like CLE should keep drafting QBs until they hit the jackpot. OK QBs like Colt McCoy aren't going to get the job done.

Jets have been in the final four the last 2 years. Defense and a running game mean a lot more in the playoffs. Ravens could make some noise as well.

I am not saying the Jets will make some noise, I don't actually think they get in and hopefully Schottenheimer is gone.

[Bobblehead]

Is Von Miller still a shoe in for Defensive ROY, or does Aldon Smith get consideration since he has 14 sacks, one away from the rookie sack record?

Miller is an every down back while Smith has generally only come in on passing downs (although he has been getting more snaps as the season progresses).

After week 8 I would have said it looked like Miller winning was a sure thing but I'm not so sure anymore.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Is Von Miller still a shoe in for Defensive ROY, or does Aldon Smith get consideration since he has 14 sacks, one away from the rookie sack record?

Miller is an every down back while Smith has generally only come in on passing downs (although he has been getting more snaps as the season progresses).

After week 8 I would have said it looked like Miller winning was a sure thing but I'm not so sure anymore.

I think it's still Miller, like you said Miller is playing every down so he has 20-30 more tackles and has an impact on every down...

[Displaced Flames fan]

If Smith breaks Kearse's record he'll win it.

Miller's thumb injury has really slowed him down the last couple of weeks.

[CaramonLS]

Welker has great hands, amazing route running ability and can get open.

Might not be the biggest, fastest or strongest guy, but he does what he does very, very well. It works for the Pats.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by KTown

Correction Brady is never out of the game. I honestly think with the team in front of Brady this year that the Pats would be just about as bad as the colts are without Manning.

Eight Patriots, 49ers lead Pro Bowl rosters
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...?sct=nfl_t2_a8

Brady is one of seven starters from New England (12-3). The others are receiver Wes Welker, tight end Rob Gronkowski, defensive tackle Vince Wilfork, defensive end Andre Carter, and guards Brian Waters and Logan Mankins all are starters for the AFC from the Patriots. Special teamer Matthew Slater is the other New England representative.

[GirlySports]

How do the Patriots have more defensive pro-bowlers than the Steelers!?