Then remove the whip and remove party leadership from controlling appointments and nominations. Until those are gone the individual MP is completely useless.
They still get the same number of votes in the house as every other MP.
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They are simply a play thing of their leader. You honestly don't even need to know their name. Even this swap, hes not going to do anything for the Liberals. He's just going to be another whipped vote with a cushy job when he retires.
So you’re saying his vote matters?
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It's a joke of an electoral system that someone gets 20% of the population to vote for them and the leader is essentially a dictator for 4 years. Imagine if someone like Trump got in power. The power of the PM absolutely dwarfs the power of the President.
It isn’t a perfect system but the alternative isn’t better. If people only vote for parties then maybe they should start voting for parties that don’t force their MPs to blindly agree with everything the party tells them to.
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Originally Posted by troutman
No one does this realistically.
I do.
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Originally Posted by Firebot
While that's true technically, most voters don't do this and only vote based on the party without ever learning about the candidate (see Kevin Vuong as the perfect example of blind partisan voting). People do this because of how much importance the party matters in our parliamentary system.
How much the party matters is really up to the voters. If people are serious about wanting better representation then they need to change the things that they can control under the current system. “The system is broken” is just a cop out, any system will be gamed by those in power if the voters are willing to allow them to get away with it.
They still get the same number of votes in the house as every other MP.
So you’re saying his vote matters?
It isn’t a perfect system but the alternative isn’t better. If people only vote for parties then maybe they should start voting for parties that don’t force their MPs to blindly agree with everything the party tells them to.
I do.
How much the party matters is really up to the voters. If people are serious about wanting better representation then they need to change the things that they can control under the current system. “The system is broken” is just a cop out, any system will be gamed by those in power if the voters are willing to allow them to get away with it.
Do you not understand what a Party whip is? The MP doesn't have control of their own vote.
And there's a million alternatives that are better. It would honestly be hard to create a worse system. Only countries with leaders with more power than Canada are dictators. Hell, put all the democracies of the world on a dart board and throw a dart randomly. Copy/Paste. Boom, we just improved
How exactly are people supposed to vote for that? Here mr leader, I'm giving you all the power for a few years. I expect you to make your job harder by having less power.
It isn’t a perfect system but the alternative isn’t better. If people only vote for parties then maybe they should start voting for parties that don’t force their MPs to blindly agree with everything the party tells them to.
That is not true. The alternative systems ARE better. A mixed-member proportional representation (MMPR) system would be vastly superior to Canada's current FPTP system that gives 100% of the power to ~35% of the vote.
Everyone should be demanding electoral reform and it is unfortunate that floor crossings are often the only time most Blue/Red supporters get onboard with it.
One of our Alberta content creators jumped on the story about a company that looks a lot like Harper's company is in the Epstein files for receiving $1M while Harper was still an MP.
But for me that wasn't the most interesting part of the video (since it still need to be investigated and confirmed). What I thought was interesting was near the end they highlighted Harper's role in deregulating the Canadian media industry so that American corporations could buy up all of the Canadian press and create this misinformation disaster we have now.
If the Harper stuff is confirmed then I hope he goes to jail for it.
I think that's all wrong. I had read a Bluesky post that the company name in the files is not related in any way to Harper, it's just the name. There is more than one Harper out there. Will see if I can find it.
Do you not understand what a Party whip is? The MP doesn't have control of their own vote.
You do realize that MPs can actually vote against the party whip right? Like yeah it might get them kicked out of the party, but as a constituent why would I be concerned about that if they are voting for what I want?
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And there's a million alternatives that are better. It would honestly be hard to create a worse system. Only countries with leaders with more power than Canada are dictators. Hell, put all the democracies of the world on a dart board and throw a dart randomly. Boom, we just improved
This whole dictator angle is a little silly. Every democratic country is better? Seriously? I think some people take our imperfect system for granted.
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How exactly are people supposed to vote for that? Here mr leader, I'm giving you all the power for a few years. I expect you to make your job harder by having less power.
Do you realize that you’re simultaneously complaining about dictatorships while denouncing actions that would reduce the consolidation of power one individual holds?
That is not true. The alternative systems ARE better. A mixed-member proportional representation (MMPR) system would be vastly superior to Canada's current FPTP system that gives 100% of the power to ~35% of the vote.
Everyone should be demanding electoral reform and it is unfortunate that floor crossings are often the only time most Blue/Red supporters get onboard with it.
I was more so referencing his complaint about the fact that representatives get the power to make decisions for 4 years at a time. There’s definitely room for electoral reform but no matter what that would end up looking like I’d still like to see MPs stop blindly voting based on how everyone else in their party is going to.
You do realize that MPs can actually vote against the party whip right? Like yeah it might get them kicked out of the party, but as a constituent why would I be concerned about that if they are voting for what I want?
This whole dictator angle is a little silly. Every democratic country is better? Seriously? I think some people take our imperfect system for granted.
Do you realize that you’re simultaneously complaining about dictatorships while denouncing actions that would reduce the consolidation of power one individual holds?
Because the MPs aren't morons. That's why it never happens. They know the second they get kicked out of the party their career is over. Half of their voters wouldn't even know their name, they just voted for the party.
Go find a democratic country with a worse system than us. Should be easy. What is there to take for granted? That we created a worse system than every other developed country?
We have an absolutely terrible democratic system, we are just luckily a high trust, low corruption society as well so it masks the problems. The idea of prioritizing efficient centralized command in a country this large is asinine.
Because the MPs aren't morons. That's why it never happens. They know the second they get kicked out of the party their career is over. Half of their voters wouldn't even know their name, they just voted for the party.
Go find a democratic country with a worse system than us. Should be easy. What is there to take for granted? That we created a worse system than every other developed country?
We have an absolutely terrible democratic system, we are just luckily a high trust, low corruption society as well so it masks the problems.
USA.
That was easy.
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I don't doubt the denial. I assume they will deny everything until the evidence is irrefutable.
Either way, getting into the second half of the video they focused on Harper's connections to Israel and the deregulation of media ownership so American corps could buy up all our press.
Even if he is not the same "Harper & Associates" as in the files, he did some really terrible things to Canada.
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The whole world would be ####ed if Trump got elected with our government system.
The house and senate are doing a poor job and not doing their jobs but the checks and balances are there. They essentially have three factions making federal decisions. We have one guy.
In Canada all of his random thoughts and executive orders would actually happen. There is no checks and balances and he could have gotten in with far less votes than he actually got. The PM is far more powerful than the President is. Like there wouldn't even be a supreme court nomination debate. He'd just do it. He'd just go to war.
The whole world would be ####ed if Trump got elected with our government system.
The house and senate are doing a poor job and not doing their jobs but the checks and balances are there.
In Canada all of his random thoughts and executive orders would actually happen. There is no checks and balances and he could have gotten in with far less votes than he actually got. The PM is far more powerful than the President is.
Their system is still worse. They have legalized bribery of the government by corporations. You can watch to see how much money is being dumped into Congress to determine which way a vote is going to go.
Also, their 2 party system is super broken. Far less democratic than Canada's broken system especially when you come back to these Super PACs actively buying primaries to ensure their candidate is on the ballot.
Also, we just witnessed Trudeau get taken out by his own party. There are checks and balances for when a leader is going off the rails.
So the US system is worse but both countries should be converted to MMPR.
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Last edited by Wolven; 02-18-2026 at 11:29 AM.
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I don't doubt the denial. I assume they will deny everything until the evidence is irrefutable.
Either way, getting into the second half of the video they focused on Harper's connections to Israel and the deregulation of media ownership so American corps could buy up all our press.
Even if he is not the same "Harper & Associates" as in the files, he did some really terrible things to Canada.
It's wild that if you look at the two, they are clearly both the same company, but the form with and/&, and Harper misspelled "Haper" is a fun reminder that the people with this much money and power are so inept at even the most basic of things. Like making sure you have the name correct on a wire transfer.
Their system is still worse. They have legalized bribery of the government by corporations. You can watch to see how much money is being dumped into Congress to determine which way a vote is going to go.
Also, their 2 party system is super broken. Far less democratic than Canada's broken system especially when you come back to these Super PACs actively buying primaries to ensure their candidate is on the ballot.
Also, we just witnessed Trudeau get taken out by his own party. There are checks and balances for when a leader is going off the rails.
So the US system is worse but both countries should be converted to MMPR.
Trudeau resigned after over a decade in power on his own. He had every option to go into the next election as the leader and lose.
You are describing corruption, not the electoral system. Add US corruption to Canada and it would be terrifying. You just have to buy out one guy and he can do everything you want. Be a hell of a lot cheaper than buying out 3 different systems with hundreds of individual decision makers.
Trudeau resigned after over a decade in power on his own. He had every option to go into the next election as the leader and lose.
You are describing corruption, not the electoral system. Add US corruption to Canada and it would be terrifying. You just have to buy out one guy and he can do everything you want. Be a hell of a lot cheaper than buying out 3 different systems with hundreds of individual decision makers.
It sounds like you are unaware of what transpired to cause Trudeau to resign. Freeland's letter, followed by a closed door caucus meeting, resulted in Trudeau's resignation. The writing is on the wall that had he not resigned, then the caucus was prepared to vote him out as leader.
There may be a lot of power in being the PM but the caucus can vote you out as leader of the party (and thus remove you as PM) if you piss enough of them off.
That's why it never happens. They know the second they get kicked out of the party their career is over. Half of their voters wouldn't even know their name, they just voted for the party.
Life’s about choices. I don’t agree with you that someone getting kicked out of a party or leaving a party would be the end of their career though.
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Go find a democratic country with a worse system than us. Should be easy. What is there to take for granted? That we created a worse system than every other developed country?
Define democratic country. Russia considers itself a democracy. Do they count?
I never said that our system was perfect or can’t be improved. At the same time though I think some of its warts could easily be addressed by voters holding representatives more accountable. While you may argue that is unlikely to happen, that doesn’t mean it can’t happen or wouldn’t help fix the problem.
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We have an absolutely terrible democratic system, we are just luckily a high trust, low corruption society as well so it masks the problems. The idea of prioritizing efficient centralized command in a country this large is asinine.
I’ve already provided an explanation for what I think would help and you just keep coming up with excuses for why things like representatives voting against a party can’t happen even though it absolutely can.
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