The 2016 US American Election Thread

[peter12]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Don't play the victim card so quickly, it'll be ok. It seems you think a moderate religious viewpoint is a moderate viewpoint for everyone.

In an increasingly secular society clinging on to antiquated ideas about marriage is what is moving conservatives away from moderates, not towards it. But this does help to explain why you present things as you do.

As for your last bit go ahead and crawl down off your cross. I tried asking you if you meant something else. What was inherently unfair or unjust about how your quick little argument was was interpreted?

Victim card? What nonsense.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by photon

Bill on after the election:

"Bill Clinton says once the election is over, his wife's supporters should reach out to Donald Trump's voters.

The former president said Democrats should not treat Donald Trump supporters the way they and their nominee have treated Hillary Clinton backers.

He was speaking Monday at Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire.

Clinton said many Trump supporters have reason to feel alienated, but their anger will not take them where they want to go."

http://www.theeagle.com/news/politic...a6a372b0e.html

Not surprising. Bill Clinton was a pretty Republican president. Could always get both sides to work together. He'd just talk people to death.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

In an increasingly secular society clinging on to antiquated ideas about marriage...

In a conversation about constitutionally re-defining marriage, there is a obligation to protect the minority position too.
The belief that marriage is a sacrament is not a barbaric relic of primitives.
That is a reprehensible stance.

Originally Posted by ResAlien

As for your last bit go ahead and crawl down off your cross. I tried asking you if you meant something else. What was inherently unfair or unjust about how your quick little argument was was interpreted?

I think you're being extremely unfair.
The context of the conversation was a historically moderate position on marriage.

[PsYcNeT]

I guess to clarify for this conversation, are we talking "marriage: the religious bond" or "marriage: ADAM AND EVE NOT ADAM AND STEVE"?

Like, naming convention as sacrament?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I guess to clarify for this conversation, are we talking "marriage: the religious bond" or "marriage: ADAM AND EVE NOT ADAM AND STEVE"?

Like, naming convention as sacrament?

A covenant between two people made before God for the purpose of starting a family.

[FlamesAddiction]

Can't marriage be both a religious sacrament and a secular instrument for creating a civil union?

Until the state starts forcing churches to perform marriages that go against their their religious beliefs, it is really a non-issue. Just because same-sex marriage is recognized civilly, it doesn't mean it can't be a church sacrament in a church.

[Gozer]

Let's not derail the thread.

I challenged peter12 to provide a constitutional definition.
He gave it an honest effort.

Unless you wish to provide your own answer to my challenge then I encourage further conversation on marriage to be in another thread.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by peter12

Actually, the elite typically has morals and values and behaviours that align with a kind of conservatism.

The problem is that they don't prescribe these values for others, and set an example, but instead cast the rest of society as being in need of enlightened direction.

For the millionth time btw, I am not American.

Edit - Ahh, baited again! That is all

[ResAlien]

As you command so it shall be done, Gozer. Peter was treated unfairly, very unfairly. As unfairly as anyone has ever seen. It's a symptom of our times really.

Anyway, glad to see Clinton is winning in Colorado again. It appears that only Ohio is really holding out for him as far as battleground states go. Three weeks of fun left until the third Clinton administration begins, this should be fun to watch.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by peter12

Of course it is moderate. Religious people tend to form the most cohesive, stable, and productive communities. Properly structured religion actually helps a free society become more free, civil, engaged, and transparent. I'm not just speaking of Christianity here.

Radically autonomized and liberated individuals actually tend not to form any attachment to society at all.

Look at the incredibly radical liberation movement currently occuring around the subject of sex and gender. It is actually deconstructing quite stable communities in the name of ideology.

Religion no longer works, it stopped working around eighty years ago, ironically about the same time socialism stopped working for roughly the same reasons, we used to need religion as life was so grim there had to be something to make sense of it and the rules answered the need for a basic set of guidelines for a relatively simple society, life isn't as grim and we now live in complex multicultural societies that are defined by technological wonders that our grandfathers would have viewed as witchcraft.

We know that most conditions that used to viewed as sin are in fact complex genetic and social conditions that we have little control over, as such the concept of sin becomes less and less rational and that, as the basis for all Judeo Christian Faith, undermines the whole concept.

This causes people to either abandon their faith entirely or bury themselves in utterly absurd fundamentalism in an attempt to ignore the obvious contradictions.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Religion no longer works, it stopped working around eighty years ago, ironically about the same time socialism stopped working for roughly the same reasons, we used to need religion as life was so grim there had to be something to make sense of it and the rules answered the need for a basic set of guidelines for a relatively simple society, life isn't as grim and we now live in complex multicultural societies that are defined by technological wonders that our grandfathers would have viewed as witchcraft.

We know that most conditions that used to viewed as sin are in fact complex genetic and social conditions that we have little control over, as such the concept of sin becomes less and less rational and that, as the basis for all Judeo Christian Faith, undermines the whole concept.

This causes people to either abandon their faith entirely or bury themselves in utterly absurd fundamentalism in an attempt to ignore the obvious contradictions.

but i come from a grim religion that doesn't contradict anything (buddhism)

[afc wimbledon]

Sorry as I'm probably derailing the thread, probably who am I kidding? Peters mustering his Martin Luther and CS Lewis quotes as I type.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Reminder to Melania: The most pro-Trump paper in the country (NY Post) posted those pictures. Also, you do not want to mess with the Clintons when it comes to this.

[Izzle]

Trump is not a details guy:
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...ka-voter-guide

[peter12]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Sorry as I'm probably derailing the thread, probably who am I kidding? Peters mustering his Martin Luther and CS Lewis quotes as I type.

No, I didn't even want to wade into your mess of a post.

[ResAlien]

McCain suggests the Republican mandate of obstructionism may not change under President Clinton. They got their BS "let the will of the people decide" crap to be swallowed the first time around but now that they're losing they're going back to the mattresses. I'm utterly shocked and thank the Republican party for giving control of the house to Democrats.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58...b0162c043d4c9a

[peter12]

Except that the US Congress is also elected by... the people.

Guys, the President isn't a monarch.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Izzle

Trump is not a details guy:
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...ka-voter-guide

I suspect Trumps numbers will turn out to be massively lower than he's polling at because of these kind of things, polls always assume that the person who says they'll vote trump will actually vote, I suspect vast numbers of Trump supporters will not be called and reminded where the polling station is or the like and many won't vote.

[photon]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I suspect Trumps numbers will turn out to be massively lower than he's polling at because of these kind of things, polls always assume that the person who says they'll vote trump will actually vote, I suspect vast numbers of Trump supporters will not be called and reminded where the polling station is or the like and many won't vote.

It'll be interesting for sure. Trump's said he's running such a great campaign, the best campaign, books will be written about it. I bet books will be written, but probably not for the reasons he'd like.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by peter12

Except that the US Congress is also elected by... the people.

Guys, the President isn't a monarch.

If the Republican party insists on not filling vacant supreme Court seats in what would be a historically unprecedented show of obstructionism people are going to lose patience with them and are likely to vote in Democrats. Couple that with a negative down ballot Trump effect and that leads to the Democrats getting control of the government.