[POLL] Calgary Flames coaching change mega-thread—with poll

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Torch

Sutter would be a terrible coach for this team. Might as well trade Johnny.

Why is that?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Why is that?

Because hyperbole is a dangerous drug.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Torch

Sutter would be a terrible coach for this team. Might as well trade Johnny.

Eh. Sutter is not against non-physical skill players. He specifically traded for guys like Kristian Huselius and Alex Tanguay, and neither of them had as much fight or two-way play in them as Johnny does.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

But it kind of is. They are executives.
Sure they may not be x and o guys.

But if this is their logic, it is pretty tough to argue
- last time the franchise was in a similar-ish state, Sutter stepped in and made them a playoff team, darn near won a cup
- he stepped in to LA, fixed them up and won 2 cups
- he is available now
- Tre’s handpicked guy just flopped colossally

The bar is now Sutter. How can Tre justify his guy to those cutting the cheques and avoid part of that justification being why not Sutter?

I think Sutter is one of the best, if not the best bench bosses in history. I think he gets his players in the right mind space to play well and has a bit of that Scotty Bowman ability to sense when players are on and adjust their ice time up to take advantage of it.

I also think he's hard on players and has a window.

And in LA there was a pretty good technical coach in the wings running the show for the last two or three years.

I'm ok with it if they find a way to get a very good technical guy in place to make sure the Flames don't walk out 2006 hockey 12 years too late.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Seems odd that he would mention Treliving wasn't enamored by Sutter if he was just spitballing names.

Look at it this way...

Treliving never tells anybody, anything, in regards to what he is doing, outside of his inner circle inside the Flames offices.

But somehow he told someone, who told Dreger, that BT doesnt like the idea of Darryl Sutter?

Not a chance.

[CliffFletcher]

Assessing a coach is not as simple as looking at the win/loss column. If coaches really were so influential that teams with strong records have good coaches and teams with weak records had bad coaches, they'd be paid $10 mil+ a year.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Look at it this way...

Treliving never tells anybody, anything, in regards to what he is doing, outside of his inner circle inside the Flames offices.

But somehow he told someone, who told Dreger, that BT doesnt like the idea of Darryl Sutter?

Not a chance.

That's fair. Dreger seems to have had nothing on the Flames over the last two years.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by Bingo

In all fairness he did say that he himself had trouble managing expectations, there's some culpability in that.

Failing to manage expectations as a self critique is almost always a cop out and diversion from any real critique (and who knows... maybe he's really self aware and knows his issues and just uses "managing expectations" as his public talking point).

Saying he failed to manage expectations implies that the work he did was just fine but people unrealistically expected too much. No one would have thought being an 84 point team was right about where they should be. Far from it!

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think Sutter is one of the best, if not the best bench bosses in history. I think he gets his players in the right mind space to play well and has a bit of that Scotty Bowman ability to sense when players are on and adjust their ice time up to take advantage of it.

I also think he's hard on players and has a window.

And in LA there was a pretty good technical coach in the wings running the show for the last two or three years.

I'm ok with it if they find a way to get a very good technical guy in place to make sure the Flames don't walk out 2006 hockey 12 years too late.

So you're saying you don't want Rich Preston back?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think Sutter is one of the best, if not the best bench bosses in history. I think he gets his players in the right mind space to play well and has a bit of that Scotty Bowman ability to sense when players are on and adjust their ice time up to take advantage of it.

I also think he's hard on players and has a window.

And in LA there was a pretty good technical coach in the wings running the show for the last two or three years.

I'm ok with it if they find a way to get a very good technical guy in place to make sure the Flames don't walk out 2006 hockey 12 years too late.

Why does Stevens get painted as Sutter's technical coach? Since taking over the Kings dropped from 1st to 16th in possession metrics. Their style of play this year was more Hartley than Sutter. I think Sutter was fully in charge of the technical side and always has been.

[mikeecho]

nm

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think Sutter is one of the best, if not the best bench bosses in history. I think he gets his players in the right mind space to play well and has a bit of that Scotty Bowman ability to sense when players are on and adjust their ice time up to take advantage of it.

I also think he's hard on players and has a window.

And in LA there was a pretty good technical coach in the wings running the show for the last two or three years.

I'm ok with it if they find a way to get a very good technical guy in place to make sure the Flames don't walk out 2006 hockey 12 years too late.

So do we.

If we're being honest with ourselves, Gaudreau is very likely not re-signing when his contract is up. He's spoken too many times about how great it would be to go play in Philly to not realize that this is a later life goal of his. And that's fine. If we get eight years of Johnny Gaudreau, then we will have been really fortunate.

At the same time, this helps define our window: We have four years.

So that part of things doesn't really matter.

But, as you imply, we're not built like the Kings. So Sutter either has to have a good plan to run the style we'll need right now, or will have to have good assistants to bridge that gap while he acts as the general and motivator.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Torch

Sutter would be a terrible coach for this team. Might as well trade Johnny.
Ferland on the top line makes no sense, Ferland is Rene Bourque 2.0 . Ferland is a third line guy on a cup team.
This team needs an large injection of talent and heart.

Terrible takes.

a. Despite the persona Sutter appreciates and uses talented guys. He traded for Tanguay, Huselius, Langkow, Cammalleri when he was here. I think Sutter would like Johnny and would motivate him well.

b. Ferland is not Bourque. Bourque had a huge toolbox but no heart. Ferland has limited skills (not untalented but not a natural either) and he has heart. He also has concussion issues which limit his fighting now.

c. The team is really not that far off. I think they are fragile, but not uncaring. They need to channel better. Their talent level is not among the best, but they have enough to win.

[Table 5]

Personally, I think what this team needs is a group of strong systems-based assistant coaches to make sure the team is playing a fundamentally sound game, and then a qualitative focused head coach like Sutter to come in to provide the motivation and leadership.

This way you make the egghead in Treliving happy, but also don't ignore the x-factor that was completely missing with Gulutzan. You need both in today's NHL, and it often takes a group effort.

[kukkudo]

Honestly think GG would of been the perfect assistant here.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Personally, I think what this team needs is a group of strong systems-based assistant coaches to make sure the team is playing a fundamentally sound game, and then a qualitative focused head coach like Sutter to come in to provide the motivation and leadership.

This way you make the egghead in Treliving happy, but also don't ignore the x-factor that was completely missing with Gulutzan. You need both in today's NHL, and it often takes a group effort.

Exactly.

Relegate the Xs and Os to the assistants and assign the leadership to the Coach.

I said it before the great 'Thread Merge of ought 18' but I guess I'll repeat it:

This team doesnt need a teacher, they need a General.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Why does Stevens get painted as Sutter's technical coach? Since taking over the Kings dropped from 1st to 16th in possession metrics. Their style of play this year was more Hartley than Sutter. I think Sutter was fully in charge of the technical side and always has been.

Who said anything about possession numbers?

Especially right now you'd probably be hard pressed to find another fan base less interested in watching possession numbers.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

That's fair. Dreger seems to have had nothing on the Flames over the last two years.

Really, none of the insiders have had any good information from the Flames since Treliving was hired. It's mostly guess work or info leaked from other teams.

Remember back to the Hamilton trade when Calgary wasn't even mentioned as a team in the hunt until minutes before the trade call started.

[Brick]

I think Darryl Sutter is the best coach available right now.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

So do we.

If we're being honest with ourselves, Gaudreau is very likely not re-signing when his contract is up. He's spoken too many times about how great it would be to go play in Philly to not realize that this is a later life goal of his. And that's fine. If we get eight years of Johnny Gaudreau, then we will have been really fortunate.

At the same time, this helps define our window: We have four years.

So that part of things doesn't really matter.

But, as you imply, we're not built like the Kings. So Sutter either has to have a good plan to run the style we'll need right now, or will have to have good assistants to bridge that gap while he acts as the general and motivator.

I feel like the window is really only 3 years. I hope if it is clear Johnny is not going to sign an extension the Flames trade him with a year left on his deal (one of the reasons I was so pissed at 6 vs 8 years but that is a different discussion)

Darryl likely is a 3-5 year coach but he has a proven track record. 2012-2014 the Kings won 10 playoff series. Theblast 2 years he coached the Flames they raised a WC banner and a NW div banner. When he went upstairs the flames went back on the bubble until a rebuild was needed.