2011 Canadian Election Thread

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Crappy choices out there for sure but I don't think the world is going to end either way because it will be a minority situation. Provinces with majority NDP governments even like Nova Scotia and Manitoba are running fine, and the Conservatives are well balanced in a minority situation despite their kind of shady policies around discourse.

Really?

Originally Posted by Azure

And MB is going to get a Conservative leader in October because the NDP has royally screwed over this province from top to bottom.

[Slava]

Well I do agree that a minority should be fine. When I hear things about Layton wanting to interfere with the BoC and force them to interest rates low though, I suddenly don't even want to vote NDP just to give them $2 because they've run the best campaign of any of them.

Political interference with the BoC, stock markets and things like that is absolutely the wrong way to go IMO.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I blame the Liberals. If they were even a marginally credible alternative to the Tories at this point, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

The NDP has managed to tap into both people's general dissatisfaction with Harper and the dissatisfaction with Ignatieff in the Center, not to mention Quebecers' dissatisfaction with the Bloc. Pretty impressive politically, since they appear to (possibly) have snatched a majority right out from under Stephen Harper's nose--and I think we can all agree that a majority was his for the taking at the start of the campaign.

The fact is, the NDP are the only ones who have run an even halfway decent campaign, and they're being rewarded. Ignatieff has been a complete disaster, and Harper has demonstrated a surprising lack of vision given the amount of time he had to prepare for this campaign. I think he thought he could win by running against "The Coalition--BOO!" He was wrong--and it looks like Jack Layton will be the beneficiary, perhaps to the tune of about 30 seats.

At least out where I'm at the big flaw in the tory campaign strategically has been to avoid debate and public appearances - the kind of "prevent" defense their running. The new guy running in the Kootenays is the only one of five local candidates who refused to show up at a debate today saying he's busy with other things and to me that reflects their overall outlook which seemed a bit afraid of the public and the media right from the start.

It worked to a point of protecting their base but you can't grow your support that way.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well I do agree that a minority should be fine. When I hear things about Layton wanting to interfere with the BoC and force them to interest rates low though, I suddenly don't even want to vote NDP just to give them $2 because they've run the best campaign of any of them.

Political interference with the BoC, stock markets and things like that is absolutely the wrong way to go IMO.

I also disagree with the whole idea of re-opening Constitutional negotiations with Quebec. But it's a bit of a moot point, since Layton has no shot of forming a government.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well I do agree that a minority should be fine. When I hear things about Layton wanting to interfere with the BoC and force them to interest rates low though, I suddenly don't even want to vote NDP just to give them $2 because they've run the best campaign of any of them.

Political interference with the BoC, stock markets and things like that is absolutely the wrong way to go IMO.

Doesn't the government often interfere with the BoC? If I remember my Canadian history correctly, Mulroney via Crow forced them to keep interest rates *HIGH*, which ultimately lead to a home-grown recession.

BTW - I know most of the NDP platform and policies and never read anything about abolition of the stock market. So I just googled it to see if I could find anything and I did. Slava's post on CP.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Matty81

At least out where I'm at the big flaw in the tory campaign strategically has been to avoid debate and public appearances - the kind of "prevent" defense their running. The new guy running in the Kootenays is the only one of five local candidates who refused to show up at a debate today saying he's busy with other things and to me that reflects their overall outlook which seemed a bit afraid of the public and the media right from the start.

It worked to a point of protecting their base but you can't grow your support that way.

Agreed--the optics of that really aren't good. Swing voters like to feel like someone is wooing them, and the Harper message has been way too standoffish and entitled.

Again, if the Liberals were halfway credible, he'd REALLY be in trouble here. As it stands, Liberal support is down to just the people who'd vote Liberal if their local candidate was a Toy Poodle with an "L" shaved into its flank.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Really?

I agree that the dippers are polling about 10% behind the Cons in Manitoba and a change looks likely, but I'm not sure I'm ready to take one guy (with all respect to that one guy) who doesn't like the NDP in Manitoba's word as proof that the province fell apart under them after being in power for more than a decade straight. Gary Doer leaving played a huge role in the swing in sentiment as the new guy is kind of a dud.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Slava

Political interference with the BoC, stock markets and things like that is absolutely the wrong way to go IMO.

FYI -from the Globe and Mail:

Mr Layton was merely expressing an opinion about the appropriate path of interest rates, and not considering the possibility of ordering the Bank of Canada to keep interest rates low. Later, an e-mail from NDP headquarters assured that "New Democrats are committed to the independence of the Bank."

It would seem that the fear-mongering has gone from one extreme to the other. "THE CONSERVATIVES WILL KILL ALL KITTENS AND FEED THEM TO US LOWLY SERFS" to "THE NDP WILL BANKRUPT THE NATION AND WE'LL NEED THE UN TO DROP BAGS OF WHEAT FOR US TO EAT!!"

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Doesn't the government often interfere with the BoC? If I remember my Canadian history correctly, Mulroney via Crow forced them to keep interest rates *HIGH*, which ultimately lead to a home-grown recession.

BTW - I know most of the NDP platform and policies and never read anything about abolition of the stock market. So I just googled it to see if I could find anything and I did. Slava's post on CP.

No, no, no. Crow kept rates high to reign in inflation, totally necessary. No political interference. An independent Bank of Canada is of the utmost importance economically. They might express that opinion, but really Jack Layton shouldn't have an opinion on the trajectory of interest rates, it's not his job(even if he's PM).

As for the NDP policies, they have already dropped their 2009 policy book from their Halifax convention. I even e-mailed them to try and get it and got stonewalled. They are wolves in sheeps clothing when it comes to the economy.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Slava

I might come for part of the games we'll see how things go.

I just thought that a signature from you saying you would give the Liberals a majority would be amusing. Alas only a Conservative could stoop that low!

Truthfully, the only thing holding me back from seriously considering a vote for the liberals is Iggy. I just don't like what he presents as a leader.

So I'll go with the devil I know for now.

[Ozy_Flame]

I was going to vote for the PC's this year because I like how we weathered the recession compared to other countries, but when your PC candidates don't feel the need to show up to any public debates or do any campaigning because they know they're going to win, they can forget it. I hate PC arrogance in Calgary where they don't feel like they have to do any work because everyone just votes blue anyway. Even worse is that it's Rob Anders. People let this guy get away with anything.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Agreed--the optics of that really aren't good. Swing voters like to feel like someone is wooing them, and the Harper message has been way too standoffish and entitled.

Again, if the Liberals were halfway credible, he'd REALLY be in trouble here. As it stands, Liberal support is down to just the people who'd vote Liberal if their local candidate was a Toy Poodle with an "L" shaved into its flank.

Ya I am a swing voter, I've voted Conservative, Liberal and Green (sorry NDP fans) before - by and large I didn't mind Conservative governance fiscally, economic action plan aside, but I need a sign from them socially that they are more centrist and will do what's best for everybody instead of trying to force what their grassroots want on the rest of us.

I keep feeling like rather than demonstrating social values that resonate with more than their 1/3 of Canada they are sticking by their extreme outlook and just refusing to talk about it. I don't even know if that's actually right or wrong, I've heard so little from them that I don't know where they stand.

[SeeBass]

I am in Prentice's old riding and I looked at the qualifications of Rempel (CPC) and the Liberal guy and the Liberal guy blows her out of the water.

The Liberal will not get my vote but Rempel has done nothing either but call me for money.

I really am not of a fan of this non competive regional voting.

[burn_this_city]

I'm of the opinion that Harper wouldnt push a socially conservative policy that would result in the conservative demise in a future election. Things like abortion and gay marriage are not going to be their hill to die on. Its taken this long for them to be seen as a decent alternative to the Liberals.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I am in Prentice's old riding and I looked at the qualifications of Rempel (CPC) and the Liberal guy and the Liberal guy blows her out of the water.

The Liberal will not get my vote but Rempel has done nothing either but call me for money.

Why wouldn't you vote for the more qualified candidate?

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Why wouldn't you vote for the more qualified candidate?

Cause he would vote as a Liberal.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I was going to vote for the PC's this year because I like how we weathered the recession compared to other countries, but when your PC candidates don't feel the need to show up to any public debates or do any campaigning because they know they're going to win, they can forget it. I hate PC arrogance in Calgary where they don't feel like they have to do any work because everyone just votes blue anyway. Even worse is that it's Rob Anders. People let this guy get away with anything.

So are you not going to vote or vote for another party?

It's mind boggling how Anders is still the CPC rep and it seems like Harper will bend over backwards to keep him there. Why boogie woogie man? what does Anders have on you?

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I keep feeling like rather than demonstrating social values that resonate with more than their 1/3 of Canada they are sticking by their extreme outlook and just refusing to talk about it. I don't even know if that's actually right or wrong, I've heard so little from them that I don't know where they stand.

Yes, it's fine for the Liberals to push their social agenda on everyone, but even though the Conservatives have done nothing of the sort its the 'Hidden Agenda' that's a real problem.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I agree that the dippers are polling about 10% behind the Cons in Manitoba and a change looks likely, but I'm not sure I'm ready to take one guy (with all respect to that one guy) who doesn't like the NDP in Manitoba's word as proof that the province fell apart under them after being in power for more than a decade straight. Gary Doer leaving played a huge role in the swing in sentiment as the new guy is kind of a dud.

I guess it depends on what you call running fine. Manitoba should be raking in millions by supplying clean hydro to the US and the rest of Canada, but instead our NDP government likes to squabble over where to run the power lines.

Nevermind things like government red tape, which I've had to personally deal with the past 6 months, when it comes to investing into your business in the form of new buildings, new equipment, etc, etc. Just a serious, serious, serious headache. We buy equipment out of BC, CSA certified, and that isn't good enough for the Labor Board here in Manitoba, which insists on spending another 2 months approving the equipment for their own certification, despite the CSA sticker. And when we call the company that manufactured that certain piece of equipment, they have no idea what to do about it, because no other province in Canada presents that problem. Of course, given that we're the only ones with this kind of system here in Manitoba, of course one might think the Labor Board might want to look at it a bit more closely, but to delay us from using it for months on end simply because they like red tape? Ridiculous.

I could go on and on about electrical code, building code, and numerous other red tape that is beyond ridiculous here in NDP gloryland. No, the NDP has done far from a 'fine' job here. They've royally screwed it over from top to bottom, and if the Conservatives do get elected, it'll take 10 years to fix all that crap.

If the idea is to grow jobs and get the private side to invest in our country, you don't want the NDP in charge. I personally know at least half a dozen multi-million dollar businesses that see opportunity in Manitoba, but want no part of the red tape it takes to accomplish something here. And I know for a fact that one of the fastest growing businesses in Manitoba is looking to relocate further West, depending on some logistical issues, simply because they hate dealing with government red tape. They ship stuff all over North America, and recently signed a huge contract to supply Home Depot in the US with stuff, and guess where they want to build the factory that does that work? Not in Manitoba.

Manitoba has something Alberta doesn't have, hydro. And despite that, we're still stuck running deficits each and every year. Even with an oil industry that has basically doubled revenue from last year.

So no, not a fine job at all.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

Cause he would vote as a Liberal.

Ah. Vote along party lines. Gotcha.

I just always found this mentality surprising. It's like saying someone would hypothetically have no problem voting for the selfish, brainless d-bag with no concept of leading people over an educated, qualified professional because of the color of t-shirt he's wearing.

I'm not saying your candidate is a brainless d-bag, but I'll never understand the 'party line' mentality. I would prefer to vote for the person best able to represent the needs of your ward, regardless of shirt color.