Ongoing Sci-Fi, Comic Book Movie Thread v2

[Harry Lime]

I really hope that Marvel doesn't start thinking of Namor as a competition with DC. I think that they only fell into that trap once.

Spoiler!

"DC is going to beat us to the punch with Wonder Woman."

"That's just a way to make Captain Marvel even more awesome, we get to see their's first."

"Wonder Woman is basically a god."

"Marvel is... um... Super-God."

"They got Gal Gadot, pretty much a supermodel."

"Ask Brie to be sort of smarmy and unlikable."

"Should we get Kevin on the line?"

"Uh....no."

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Nadal Fan

Story, acting are all subjective I get you may not like Aquaman, but I can't imagine watching Aquaman and you come away thinking it had terrible CGI.

Also if Namor ever does come out it will be 100% because of the success of Aquaman just like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel.

I can't imagine sitting through Aquaman and coming away with the conclusion that was good CGI, it literally would have felt more authentic, if they went to finding nemo style animation for all of the underwater scenes and dispensed with any live photography. When trying to watch the movie, I couldn't focus on the disinterested acting or the terrible script because the visuals prevented me from emerging myself in the movie at all.

I also can't imagine what Aquaman or Wonder Woman would have to do with a further extension of the MCU (aside from perhaps twisting the knife on their market dominance). I'd say if anything, most of the bold releases we are seeing from the MCU have 3 movies to thank, Iron Man for giving the franchise a solid footing and tone to work with (there was a very real chance if that failed, Marvel Entertainment Studios would have gone under), The Avengers for proving you could successfully entangle all of these different movies, and Guardians of the Galaxy for proving Marvel could reach and still hit it out of the park. The only think Aquaman or WonderWoman have to do with any of those movies, is that they are still reaching to catchup to them.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Nadal Fan

I forgot about that I guess the timeline doesn't quite match. Just seems weird that Cap Marvel was the 21st MCU movie and came out 2 years after WW.

It's not weird, it's a valid critique of Marvel, that they focused too intently on their core audience, and failed to recognize the diverse crowed they had started to draw. Which caused them to take far far too long to start serving content designed for their more diverse fan base. And now that they have started to create content that is meant to connect to their more diverse audience it has often looked forced.

I think in addition to Black Widow. The Scarlet Witch, Captain Marvel, and The Wasp were going to be strong female leads coming to the Avengers Universe no matter what, they are just too entwined with the stories Marvel wanted to tell. When you see additions like She-Hulk, and Lady Thor, in the schedule those are characters getting play because of the success of other female characters.

[stang]

Originally Posted by KTrain

I’d be interested to hear how you rank it against the other DCEU movies?

For me it would be:

1. Shazam
2. Man of Steel
3. BvS
4. Justice League
5. Suicide Squad
6. Birds of Prey
7. Aquaman
8. WW84

Even writing that was a struggle. Placing most of those in a top 10 of anything was a mental hurdle I didn’t think I’d have to go through over the holidays.

Here’s a few things WW84 could have done to make it marginally more watchable:

Spoiler!

1. Give us some back story for the stupid wish granting gem. What’s its significance? Spend 5 minutes to give us some history. Maybe show us how it destroyed an ancient civilization.
2. Be consistent in the tone. The mall heist/fight scene was a joke. Guys struggling to run up escalators the wrong way. Hilarious... The other action scenes when we finally got some were much more serious.
3. Cut back the 80s cheese. Setting a movie in the 80s doesn’t mean you have to slap us in the face with 80s cliches.
4. Maybe tell us why the Smithsonian has multiple, fully fueled, 100% flyable fighter jets on a runway ready to be stolen. Or send them somewhere else to steal a plane.
5. She’s not Spider-man. Stop the idiotic, weirdly CGIed swinging.
6. Also with the lasso. Flick the bullet it away from killing Steve instead of catching it with a rope...
7. Show us Wonder Woman in action more. For over almost a straight hour we never see her. Instead she’s giving Steve a tour of 80s culture and fashion.
8. I think Pedro Pascal is awesome and love everything else he’s been in but he was the wrong person for this role. Though honestly, I don’t think anyone could have improved that part. He was a terrible villain. If he’s supposed to be the intelligent bad guy to Cheetah’s brawn, (Lex/Doomsday for example) they failed.
9. The CGI was pretty bad. Cheetah looked better than Cats but not much better.
10. Putting on the armour didn’t make sense. If her power was still diminished and she needed it to fight Cheetah, that makes sense, but she was back to full power by that point so why the armour?

I could probably keep going but this is probably my longest CP post ever and it pisses me off that it’s about Wonder Woman.

Where’s the first WW

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by stang

Where’s the first WW

Oh yeah. I’d put it at 3rd after Man of Steel. But a distant 3rd. I really like 90% of it but the ending really sucks.

[Mr.Coffee]

Almost all the DC universe movies suck. You get the Nolan Batman’s, original WW movie... and off the top of my head those are the only good ones. Could be missing a couple but its definitely yikes territory for that comic book group. And it’s to the point that I actually expect bad movies from DC comic book hero films.

[CaptainCrunch]

I really liked the first Keaton Batman, and the second one had some really good moments. After that they dropped through the floor, the VK and Clooney Batmans were awful tho


I think in terms of a great piece of DC work, the TV series Gotham was really strong as it moved along in years.


But yeah, outside of the Nolan Batmen, and the third one was just not great (How could it compared to the second one). DC movies just seem to be poorly done.

[Nadal Fan]

To me, my biggest criticism is that the MCU has kinda turned into a plug and play model where the movies all seem the same. Same tone, heros all make quips, all have good action, with a forgettable villain but nothing really unique about each one. Don't get me wrong out of the 23 MCU films I enjoy the vast majority of them, and some of them are the very height of superhero movies.

But personally I enjoy how with DC, each director puts their own spin on things. Batman Returns is very much a Burton movie, same with BvS a Snyder movie, Joker a Phillips movie and WW84 a Jenkins film. Ya in terms of quality the lows are lower than the MCU, but the highs are higher IMO.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Nadal Fan

To me, my biggest criticism is that the MCU has kinda turned into a plug and play model where the movies all seem the same. Same tone, heros all make quips, all have good action, with a forgettable villain but nothing really unique about each one. Don't get me wrong out of the 23 MCU films I enjoy the vast majority of them, and some of them are the very height of superhero movies.

But personally I enjoy how with DC, each director puts their own spin on things. Batman Returns is very much a Burton movie, same with BvS a Snyder movie, Joker a Phillips movie and WW84 a Jenkins film. Ya in terms of quality the lows are lower than the MCU, but the highs are higher IMO.

I know something thats higher.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Almost all the DC universe movies suck. You get the Nolan Batman’s, original WW movie... and off the top of my head those are the only good ones. Could be missing a couple but its definitely yikes territory for that comic book group. And it’s to the point that I actually expect bad movies from DC comic book hero films.

Joker and Shazam! were both critically acclaimed. I guess you're not including Joker in the DC universe, as your referring the to DCEU?

The major issue with Marvel is that they always play it safe. So unless they strike gold with actor interaction, the movies are always just kind of okay. For example GotG was great. GotG 2 was just okay.

I also don't like the direction that Marvel was moving in before this break. Captain Marvel and End Game were just not that good. Infinity War was great, and seemed to push the boundaries of how a villain could be. This inevitably created backlash from the mainstream audience. They pulled Thanos back considerably for End Game; they really did his character wrong after building him up for so many movies.

We won't likely be seeing Namor until BP2? It sounds like the plan is initially to introduce him a villain, which is in fitting with his character. Namor's tone is substantially different than Aquaman's. So hopefully, there should be little confusion between the charaters. Namor is supposed to be quite destructive and vengeful. Hopefully, Marvel doesn't shy away from this too much.

[AC]

WW1984 was awful in almost every way.

LOL, why was the bad guy screaming to be heard at the end while WW was able to whisper and be heard over the tornado that was apparently happening in the studio?

I also rewound to try and hear what Alistair wished for to his dad, and wasn't able to understand it.

Holy #### it was 2.5 hours long too, my god what a turd.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by AC

WW1984 was awful in almost every way.

LOL, why was the bad guy screaming to be heard at the end while WW was able to whisper and be heard over the tornado that was apparently happening in the studio?

I also rewound to try and hear what Alistair wished for to his dad, and wasn't able to understand it.

Holy #### it was 2.5 hours long too, my god what a turd.

This movie was finished prior to COVID right? It just hadnt been released?

Its not like they just hashed it together as best they could and sent it out?

What was its budget?

[KTrain]

Just $200 million.

They had all the time in the world to run this by a few focus groups and make some revisions. Not sure how they could put out such a disjointed dud with that budget and talent at their disposal.

[WhiteTiger]

I am a big fan of the Cheetah character, so I was very interested in what WW84 would come up with, expecting quite a lot.

Well...Um...what a ****'ing disappointment THAT was. >.<

[Buff]

Originally Posted by KTrain

I’d be interested to hear how you rank it against the other DCEU movies?

For me it would be:

1. Shazam
2. Man of Steel
3. BvS
4. Justice League
5. Suicide Squad
6. Birds of Prey
7. Aquaman
8. WW84

Even writing that was a struggle. Placing most of those in a top 10 of anything was a mental hurdle I didn’t think I’d have to go through over the holidays.

Here’s a few things WW84 could have done to make it marginally more watchable:

Wait... and please forgive me because I've only seen Man of Steel and Suicide Squad so far, but.... there are worse movies than Suicide Squad... and they're in the DCEU?

This can't be good.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by KTrain

Just $200 million.

They had all the time in the world to run this by a few focus groups and make some revisions. Not sure how they could put out such a disjointed dud with that budget and talent at their disposal.

The plot was rather paper thin and IMO centered around how to get Chris Pine back. Revisions and focus groups weren't going to save this one.

From a certain perspective, I’m actually a little surprised Nadalfan likes this one. As a popcorn movie I suppose it’s harmless entertainment. But WW is a major DC character and to waste a stand-alone movie for her on that has to be a major disappointment. If anything, I’d thought DC fans would be more let down than casual superhero movie fans.

[Ped]

I’m actually a little surprised Nadalfan likes this one

Really?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Ped

Really?

I know. Undoubtedly he was going to like it no matter what but I as I said, the bigger the WW fan you are, the more I thought you’d be disappointed.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The plot was rather paper thin and IMO centered around how to get Chris Pine back. Revisions and focus groups weren't going to save this one.

From a certain perspective, I’m actually a little surprised Nadalfan likes this one. As a popcorn movie I suppose it’s harmless entertainment. But WW is a major DC character and to waste a stand-alone movie for her on that has to be a major disappointment. If anything, I’d thought DC fans would be more let down than casual superhero movie fans.

I think this is the thing actually.

Superhero movies arent supposed to be 'High Theater.'

They arent supposed to be Oscar-bait or intrinsic deep-dives into the psyche of society. They dont have to be dumb, but they do have to be good.

Characters you care about, a story that makes sense, a plot that interests you...you know...something fun?

The DCEU just seems like Charlie Brown trying to kick a football and instead of Lucy pulling it away at the lest second its just that the football was never there to begin with.

Its not as though they dont have any stories or characters to work with.

Or...perhaps...its more simple than that. The football was never there, but millions of fans keep lining up for tickets to kick it anyways?

"We can keep churning out garbage and make billions because for some reason these people keep paying!!"

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Locke

"We can keep churning out garbage and make billions because for some reason these people keep paying!!"

It's been said often, and on this forum, but too many terrible movies make way too much money, and then the studios just put out more of the same because people keep coming to them. Transformers had 5 movies, not including Bumblebee. Five!



There's no incentive to do any better as long as you have paying customers.