2011 Canadian Election Thread

[Slava]

Ok T99, I'll play and give you the first prorogation free (which goes against my position).

Other than "the other guys were worse" how can you possibly justify the second time around? Longer Christmas vacation?

[Resolute 14]

I've decided that if Harper steps down as party leader any time in the near future, I am going to nominate Rob Anders for leader (and Prime Minister), just to piss Bertuzzied off.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I've decided that if Harper steps down as party leader any time in the near future, I am going to nominate Rob Anders for leader (and Prime Minister), just to piss Bertuzzied off.

I would buy a membership and work hard to help get him elected!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Proroguing parliament to hold onto power seems pretty low. Whether it was to avoid a coalition or an election (couldn't the GG have decided either?), I don't think it matters.

We just had an election just six weeks before the opposition attempted to usurp power to save their bank accounts.

Frankly, I applaud Harper for standing up to Canada's wishes in that case.

Proroguing Parliament just to watch the Olympics was stupid. Doing it to protect this country was not.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Slava

I would buy a membership and work hard to help get him elected!

Glad to hear it, because we both know Anders won't do the work himself!

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

Ok T99, I'll play and give you the first prorogation free (which goes against my position).

Thanks, i guess.

Other than "the other guys were worse" how can you possibly justify the second time around? Longer Christmas vacation?

The same way Chretian did to avoid the Fraser report?

Clearly he didnt like the way that session was heading. I wont justify it beyond saying that what he did has been done before for similar reasons. Its part of the game and process of parliamentary systems. I don't like it anymore than you do to be honest, but since its all part of what has happened over the entire lifespan of Canadian governance, I won't hold it against him for doing so...or least to the point where I am calling for his head.

The whole Olympic thing was bogus for sure, but again no worse than many before him.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Slava

Ok T99, I'll play and give you the first prorogation free (which goes against my position).

Other than "the other guys were worse" how can you possibly justify the second time around? Longer Christmas vacation?

Not that i'm trying to justify either of those prorogues but isn't it the GG who actually prorogues parliament on the PMs request and further to that, wasn't in Michaelle Jean who did it both times who was a Liberal apointee (of Paul Martin).

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Not that i'm trying to justify either of those prorogues but isn't it the GG who actually prorogues parliament on the PMs request and further to that, wasn't in Michaelle Jean who did it both times who was a Liberal apointee (of Paul Martin).

It is a rare and spectacular day when the GG goes against the PM's wishes. To do so would put the Queen above Ottawa, and would very likely precipitate a constitutional crisis.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think proroguing parliament in general is something that shows the flaws of the parliamentary system. Personally, I think it looks bad on any politician that uses it as a way to avoid defeat or embarassment, but I guess I won't blame Harper for doing what others have done.

Chretien did a lot of stupid things, and that was one of them. The internet doesn't have a lot of information about why Trudeau and Turner used it. John A. MacDonald used it during the railway scandal. It just seems like a life-line for a scoundral. Leave it for politicians to have something like that built in to the system. It's also stupid for Ignatieff or Layton to criticize it because you know damn well they would do it too.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I've decided that if Harper steps down as party leader any time in the near future, I am going to nominate Rob Anders for leader (and Prime Minister), just to piss Bertuzzied off.

Yeah because I'm the only one Anders pees off in his riding. hehe

It would be too much work for Anders so it's not his sorta thing.

[Bertuzzied]

I guess one good thing is going to come out of this election. The destruction of the Bloc!! I'd pay $300 million for that.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

I guess one good thing is going to come out of this election. The destruction of the Bloc!! I'd pay $300 million for that.

I think thats one thing we can all agree on.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Thanks, i guess.




The same way Chretian did to avoid the Fraser report?

Clearly he didnt like the way that session was heading. I wont justify it beyond saying that what he did has been done before for similar reasons. Its part of the game and process of parliamentary systems. I don't like it anymore than you do to be honest, but since its all part of what has happened over the entire lifespan of Canadian governance, I won't hold it against him for doing so...or least to the point where I am calling for his head.

The whole Olympic thing was bogus for sure, but again no worse than many before him.

Well that is basically just "the other guys did it" type of thing? I didn't vote for Chretien either actually, and think that using that as rationale is pretty ridiculous.

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Not that i'm trying to justify either of those prorogues but isn't it the GG who actually prorogues parliament on the PMs request and further to that, wasn't in Michaelle Jean who did it both times who was a Liberal apointee (of Paul Martin).

Sure, and the GG is basically in a position where they have to agree to the wishes of the PM. To me the bottom line is that the PM was scared (in both cases, but of different things) and didn't want to face the music. I get that this is an out, but don't care for it being there to be used to avoid democracy.

[Resolute 14]

Trying to usurp power to save your bank account does not serve democracy either, Slava. The opposition was flat out trying to deny the will of Canadians in a bid to serve their own selfish interests.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Trying to usurp power to save your bank account does not serve democracy either, Slava. The opposition was flat out trying to deny the will of Canadians in a bid to serve their own selfish interests.

The will of the people was a minority government actually. We've been through this hundreds of times though, so like I say even taking that first one out of the equation the second one is a pure denial of democracy.

If you would vehemently disagree with one party doing something you can't very endorse it as OK for another one?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

The will of the people was a minority government actually. We've been through this hundreds of times though, so like I say even taking that first one out of the equation the second one is a pure denial of democracy.

If you would vehemently disagree with one party doing something you can't very endorse it as OK for another one?

Correct....and not a coalition including a seperatist party.

The 2nd one as I said earlier I didnt like either, but its been done since the dawn of Canada so therefore I cant call for the guys head when all he is doing is following precedent.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

I guess one good thing is going to come out of this election. The destruction of the Bloc!! I'd pay $300 million for that.

The NDP leading a coalition is a lot worse.

[Slava]

Its all a giant moot point right now anyway. Instead we are facing "Orange Crush" which is aptly named in my opinion because they are both Orange and will crush any hopes of becoming an economic superpower that were previoulsy held.

Basically people are making the difficult choice between a government that is ethically bankrupt and one that is going to make us economically bankrupt.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Slava

Its all a giant moot point right now anyway. Instead we are facing "Orange Crush" which is aptly named in my opinion because they are both Orange and will crush any hopes of becoming an economic superpower that were previoulsy held.

Basically people are making the difficult choice between a government that is ethically bankrupt and one that is going to make us economically bankrupt.

Crappy choices out there for sure but I don't think the world is going to end either way because it will be a minority situation. Provinces with majority NDP governments even like Nova Scotia and Manitoba are running fine, and the Conservatives are well balanced in a minority situation despite their kind of shady policies around discourse.

For me as long as there's no majority I think the impact on day to day life will be non-existent and we'll be in a similar place come next election.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Slava

Its all a giant moot point right now anyway. Instead we are facing "Orange Crush" which is aptly named in my opinion because they are both Orange and will crush any hopes of becoming an economic superpower that were previoulsy held.

Basically people are making the difficult choice between a government that is ethically bankrupt and one that is going to make us economically bankrupt.

I blame the Liberals. If they were even a marginally credible alternative to the Tories at this point, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

The NDP has managed to tap into both people's general dissatisfaction with Harper and the dissatisfaction with Ignatieff in the Center, not to mention Quebecers' dissatisfaction with the Bloc. Pretty impressive politically, since they appear to (possibly) have snatched a majority right out from under Stephen Harper's nose--and I think we can all agree that a majority was his for the taking at the start of the campaign.

The fact is, the NDP are the only ones who have run an even halfway decent campaign, and they're being rewarded. Ignatieff has been a complete disaster, and Harper has demonstrated a surprising lack of vision given the amount of time he had to prepare for this campaign. I think he thought he could win by running against "The Coalition--BOO!" He was wrong--and it looks like Jack Layton will be the beneficiary, perhaps to the tune of about 30 seats.