Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Doctorfever]

Nm.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

We both know it won't.

Carney went from 15% to 30% in a conservative leaning province (with a major cost of living crisis and poll implosion in between that would have cratered that 15% support) and you are saying...it can't be a policy shift that caused more Albertans to vote Liberal and Liberals doubling their vote total?

Ok, You think 30% of Albertans would have voted for Trudeau had he stayed?

Liberals might not win in a Conservative stronghold like Battle River-Crowfoot, but a good leader and good policy that actively aid the region rather than promote divisive ones will absolutely result in more votes, not less.

Originally Posted by Blaster86

We both know it won't.

Carney went from 15% to 30% in a conservative leaning province (with a major cost of living crisis and poll implosion in between that would have cratered that 15% support) and you are saying...it can't be a policy shift that caused more Albertans to vote Liberal and Liberals doubling their vote total?

Ok, You think 30% of Albertans would have voted for Trudeau had he stayed?

Liberals might not win in a Conservative stronghold like Battle River-Crowfoot, but a good leader and good policy that actively aid the region rather than promote divisive ones will absolutely result in more votes, not less.

[Firebot]

Double post

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Might be time to step away from the keyboard and stop embarrassing yourself.

Bold talk.

Originally Posted by Firebot

Carney went from 15% to 30% in a conservative leaning province (with a major cost of living crisis and poll implosion in between that would have cratered that 15% support) and you are saying...it can't be a policy shift that caused more Albertans to vote Liberal and Liberals doubling their vote total?

Ok, You think 30% of Albertans would have voted for Trudeau had he stayed?

Liberals might not win in a Conservative stronghold like Battle River-Crowfoot, but a good leader and good policy that actively aid the region rather than promote divisive ones will absolutely result in more votes, not less.

Lucy holding the football, in my opinion. I just don't see the Liberals breaking through. Alberta is just too set in its ways of actively voting to hurt itself to change for the better.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Can you please let me know though if other provinces have actively blocked, or the federal government has legislation or policy prohibiting economic growth in any of the following provinces or territories?

- forestry, mining, tv and film or tourism in BC?
- potash mining, uranium or agriculture in SK?
- hydroelectric or manufacturing in Manitoba?
- the automotive or financial sectors in ON?
- hydroelectric, forestry, aerospace, pharmaceuticals in QC? Dairy in QC?
- oil refining or forestry in NB?
- shipbuilding, fisheries, tourism or marine R&D in NS?
- agriculture or fish industries in PEI?
- oil and gas, fisheries or mining in Newfoundland?
- mining in the territories?

Just trying to find an analog?

Maybe you're too young to remember this, or perhaps you just don't follow news that impacts other provinces, but in 1992 the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans completely shut down the Newfoundland cod fishing industry because it had become unsustainable after decades of mismanagement and overfishing. The cod population in Newfoundland waters had collapsed to a mere 1% of historic levels. The federal ban on Newfoundland cod fishing was only lifted in 2024, 32 years later, and even then fishing quotas are very tightly restricted.

As a direct result of the federal government's intervention, about 37,000 Newfoundlanders employed in the commercial fishing industry and related sectors lost their jobs. The population of the entire province in 1992 (including children, retirees, and non-working adults which make up about 40% of the total population) was 580k, so you can do the math and figure out what a sudden increase of 37,000 newly unemployed adults did to the local economy. If you scale that number up to Alberta's current population, that would be the equivalent of about 315,000 Albertans -- or three times the entire population of the greater Fort McMurray area -- suddenly losing their jobs practically overnight because of a mandate by the federal government.

And yet, I know dozens of Newfoundlanders, and not a single one of them has ever complained about Ottawa the same way so many Albertans do.

[Erick Estrada]

I'm pretty impressed with Carney. It's about time a Canadian PM started making decision for the betterment of the country even if it's not going to make everyone happy.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Maybe you're too young to remember this, or perhaps you just don't follow news that impacts other provinces, but in 1992 the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans completely shut down the Newfoundland cod fishing industry because it had become unsustainable after decades of mismanagement and overfishing. The cod population in Newfoundland waters had collapsed to a mere 1% of historic levels. The federal ban on Newfoundland cod fishing was only lifted in 2024, 32 years later, and even then fishing quotas are very tightly restricted.

As a direct result of the federal government's intervention, about 37,000 Newfoundlanders employed in the commercial fishing industry and related sectors lost their jobs. The population of the entire province in 1992 (including children, retirees, and non-working adults which make up about 40% of the total population) was 580k, so you can do the math and figure out what a sudden increase of 37,000 newly unemployed adults did to the local economy. If you scale that number up to Alberta's current population, that would be the equivalent of about 315,000 Albertans -- or three times the entire population of the greater Fort McMurray area -- suddenly losing their jobs practically overnight because of a mandate by the federal government.

And yet, I know dozens of Newfoundlanders, and not a single one of them has ever complained about Ottawa the same way so many Albertans do.

They were going to be out of work regardless with the cod population dwindling down it was only a matter of time. I get what you are saying but it's not quite the same.

[Lumby Lager]

With Guilbeault resigning from cabinet any opinions on who Carney should give his position to?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Lumby Lager

With Guilbeault resigning from cabinet any opinions on who Carney should give his position to?

Do you know anyone in the spelunking and base-jumping crowd?

[Doctorfever]

Christmas came early this year!!

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/arti...-pipeline-mou/

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Lumby Lager

With Guilbeault resigning from cabinet any opinions on who Carney should give his position to?

Inanimate carbon rod sounds good.

[Table 5]

"Guilbeault reflecting on future as Carney inks deal considering 'adjustment' to oil tanker ban for new Alberta pipeline"
https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...berta-pipeline

Getting rid of this buffoon might be worth this on it's own...

No idea if this MOU will lead to anything tangible, and I haven't been the biggest fan of the Liberals (often because of guys like above)... but good on them for doing this. It doesn't matter which political party takes credit, it's a step in the right direction for this country's autonomy and economic viability. No guarantees of anything of course, and we're already working our way out of a pretty big hole...but just maybe we atleast stopped digging up.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Christmas came early this year!!

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/arti...-pipeline-mou/

Not enough. We can all come together and rejoice when he quits his role as an MP entirely.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Dig you agree with Notley having the Alberta government boycott BC wine at the time?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...tain-1.4523473

I legitimately do not remember that so I don't know how I felt 10 years ago.

Much of the anger by Albertans isn't partisan based, it's regional based. Unfortunately our parties tend to govern based on who offers most regionally, which leads to partisanship taking an inherent part due to leaders of said parties. And a lot of it is very legitimate and reasonable anger. You have a landlocked province with a controversial product it is dependent on which consistently targeted by other provinces on ideological missions to sabotage good faith deals (Horgan).

That may have been true 20-30 years ago, but I aggressively disagree that's the case today. The rising tide of anger in Alberta is almost exclusively ideologically based, and that ideological schism just so happens to fall along a straight line geographically. Albertans don't hate Liberals because they are in the East, they hate them because they're Liberals.

And I think you're last sentence proves the overall point. Horgan isn't some boogeyman out to watch Alberta burn. He's governing representatively in accordance to the people of BC who voted him into power.

It's classic Alberta victimhood to say he is on some ideological crusade against Alberta, its people, and its industries.

One eloquent decade long tenured PM once said this about Albertans

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...erta-1.1241750



So you had a PM who actively saw Albertans and Alberta centric issues as problematic to Canada, who ran Canada under his leadership using said mentality to fix what he deemed to be a Canada where Alberta has too much say.

That's not what he said. He said that Quebecois politicians are better for the country than Albertan ones because, surprise, it better aligns with his political ideology.

Ask Danielle Smith if she thinks Albertan politicians are better for the country than those in Quebec. Ask Stephen Harper the same question.

Albertans will vote for who meets their interests most (both economical and socially), and in the federal level, that will currently be the CPC. The Liberals current approach under Carney may bring Albertans to soften up their opposition to past Liberal / Trudeau transgressions.

Albertans absolutely do NOT vote for their own interests. Maybe that's because they don't understand what their actual interests are, or maybe it's because they don't understand they are not bolstered by the blue guys.

All you have to do to get elected in or by this province is wave the right colour flag, demonize the other side, and puff your chest up over O&G. There's no subtlety in any imaginable way regarding how the average Albertan votes.

All things considering, Carney got the Liberal Albertan federal vote from 15% in 2021 to 28% just by being someone else than Trudeau. That may go higher next election if Carney continues to prove they mean to include Alberta as an integral part of Canada versus a problem.

Not just because he's not Trudeau, but because he campaigned and is delivering on being a new brand of Liberal.

From what I can tell, Albertans should be ecstatic over the job Carney has done so far.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

With that ####ty cop out? Him. Still him. If he knows what he's talking about intimately then talk about it. As far as I know that's the way it looks and nothing he said indicates anyway otherwise so I just ignore him and move on.

It's a shame all those blows to your head are finally showing

You need to slow your roll down there buds. Go easy. Some people who know lots do not agree. I know that's a devastating thing to realize but its all good. We all want the best. Maybe you should start a convoy on parliament against vaccines but for pipelines, because that's where you are headed.

I know you in BC just have money mysteriously appear in your account. We ae furiously working to do that filling so. Sorry for that us being pieces of crap.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Lucy holding the football, in my opinion. I just don't see the Liberals breaking through. Alberta is just too set in its ways of actively voting to hurt itself to change for the better.

You are so willfully in denial to the past in how despised and divisive Trudeau and his policies were in certain regions, with personal anti-Alberta bias sprinkled in that you would take any moment you can to belittle Albertan voters who have regional priorities that some parties actively clash with.

What do you consider change for the better? Why would someone in Medicine Hat vote federal NDP? Why would someone in Medicine Hat vote for a Trudeau-led Liberal party, someone who rejected LNG projects to the east claiming there is no business case to be had?

If Carney proves himself to directly aid workers in LNG and actively support the industry, outside of far right social purists, why would they not look at Carney as an option?

Frankly, this behavior is pretty telling. Carney has made a deal that stands to benefit Albertans, Smith is optimistic, overall this is very positives for Albertans, and some would rather take personal digs at Albertans and general distaste for them than to take a moment to see this as a net positive for Canada.

Feels like some are just bitter that Alberta is getting a bone here and upset that Smith can claim a win, versus being generally happy about the news.

[Lumby Lager]

Originally Posted by Locke

Do you know anyone in the spelunking and base-jumping crowd?

I saw one of the pictures of the fool when he was getting arrested at the CN tower in 2001 a few weeks ago. I lived in Toronto when the two clowns did it, I was embarrassed for my country when he made into cabinet.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by fotze2

You need to slow your roll down there buds. Go easy. Some people who know lots do not agree. I know that's a devastating thing to realize but its all good. We all want the best. Maybe you should start a convoy on parliament against vaccines but for pipelines, because that's where you are headed.

I know you in BC just have money mysteriously appear in your account. We ae furiously working to do that filling so. Sorry for that us being pieces of crap.

Wat

Originally Posted by Firebot

You are so willfully in denial to the past in how despised and divisive Trudeau and his policies were in certain regions, with personal anti-Alberta bias sprinkled in that you would take any moment you can to belittle Albertan voters who have regional priorities that some parties actively clash with.

Except they don't have regional priorities. Unless bigotry, homophobia, transphobia and general social backwards thinking are a regional priority?

Originally Posted by Firebot

What do you consider change for the better? Why would someone in Medicine Hat vote federal NDP? Why would someone in Medicine Hat vote for a Trudeau-led Liberal party, someone who rejected LNG projects to the east claiming there is no business case to be had?

There's no chance they looked at it and decided there was no business case in your mind?

Originally Posted by Firebot

If Carney proves himself to directly aid workers in LNG and actively support the industry, outside of far right social purists, why would they not look at Carney as an option?

Because they won't. And you know they won't. No matter what Carney does, no matter what he accomplishes. No matter how much bending over backwards he does, whether successful or unsuccessful will get him enough votes to make a difference.

Originally Posted by Firebot

Frankly, this behavior is pretty telling. Carney has made a deal that stands to benefit Albertans, Smith is optimistic, overall this is very positives for Albertans, and some would rather take personal digs at Albertans and general distaste for them than to take a moment to see this as a net positive for Canada.

Oh, you misunderstand. I think it is in the Federal interest for this pipeline to be done. I've been calling for this to be done to the west coast for sometimes, but I am in the minority where I live. I think it won't happen because BC, as a Province doesn't want it. I think Smith will do the bare minimum, if anything at all, to get this done because being able to rail against the Federal Government is more politically beneficial to her than actually succeeding. I think Alberta's electorate will fall for that hook line and sinker, as they always have, not asking what a tire fire provincial government could have done when given the opportunity to get what they wanted and just continuing to blame the Natural Ruling Party of Canada.

Originally Posted by Firebot

Feels like some are just bitter that Alberta is getting a bone here and upset that Smith can claim a win, versus being generally happy about the news.

I'm not bitter at all, I am just realistic to how this is likely to play out.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Yamer

And I think you're last sentence proves the overall point. Horgan isn't some boogeyman out to watch Alberta burn. He's governing representatively in accordance to the people of BC who voted him into power.

"Every tool in the toolbox" was the term used by Horgan on stopping the pipeline. This included both legal and illegal means that he did not care about as long as he could sabotage an already approved pipeline, Alberta or Canada be dammed (or BC for that matter as he would willfully sabotage BC's business attractiveness for this goal).

https://calgaryherald.com/business/e...gainst-the-law

https://globalnews.ca/news/4000744/b...kinder-morgan/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...rare-1.4640653

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...wner-1.4682167

Effectively, he had no jurisdiction on certain actions he did yet he did so anyways. Hence, Notley and the Alberta NDP's response including lawsuit threat, Kinder Morgan's eventual abandonment of the project and Liberals being forced to buy the project with taxpayer money.

His overzealous efforts almost singlehandedly sabotaged Canada's energy future (and Alberta's). Canada today would be much much worse off if not for Trans Mountain pipeline being salvaged by the Liberals which is now a godsend considering what is happening down south.

Albertans absolutely do NOT vote for their own interests. Maybe that's because they don't understand what their actual interests are, or maybe it's because they don't understand they are not bolstered by the blue guys.

All you have to do to get elected in or by this province is wave the right colour flag, demonize the other side, and puff your chest up over O&G. There's no subtlety in any imaginable way regarding how the average Albertan votes.

It didn't used to be that way. Ask yourself why that is. It can be fixed with the right leader though.

What do you consider someone's own interests, or rather why do you think they are not?