Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[The Fonz]

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[woob]

Curve you know you can hold a person accountable for their vote without saying they are totally responsible for every policy/decision/etc. right?

When we take someone to task for their vote we are saying next time, do better to educate yourself on the party/constituent/etc you’re voting for. Try to seek out non-biased information, and try to get out of your own bubble when voting. Most voters aren’t going to do that.

Many conservative voters may simply vote on tax policy. We are saying do better and broaden your vision on what you’re voting on. In 2025 we, as a society that wishes to achieve better, have to look beyond single issue voting.

I totally called the NDP out on their own goal with the TAX stuff. But I also 100 percent call out any absolute donkey who turned a blind eye to all the other KNOWN aspects of the UCP because “NDP tax bad.”

Anyways, I’m not sure why I’m addressing you given your posting history but there we go.

[indes]

Originally Posted by curves2000

This is the problem I have with you and other people's theories that voters have serious responsibility over decisions. Let's use Calgary Bow as an example, a riding that is effectively a toss up next election based on last results. Elections AB lists Calgary Bow as having 40 000 elector counts but I don't know if that is total adult Canadian's who are eligible to vote or not. How many non UCP voters (including me) are to blame for the recall campaign perhaps not going as strong as maybe it should? I don't know but they do shoulder blame if they aren't involved I take it? What would you say to a non UCP voting adult who hasn't taken up the petition to send a message?

I would personally like to know what policy, decision, scandal or anything else politically related in local and federal elections you personally are responsible for during your electoral life? It's naive to think that you can vote for parties, people and that their decisions have lead to certain outcomes and you aren't responsible for anything? All the bone headed decisions made over years of politics and your escaping responsibility? Everybody else has blood on their hands and in their soul but your clean?

Inside all the strawmanning you were on it for a second there!

[Coach]

Originally Posted by curves2000

This is the problem I have with you and other people's theories that voters have serious responsibility over decisions. Let's use Calgary Bow as an example, a riding that is effectively a toss up next election based on last results. Elections AB lists Calgary Bow as having 40 000 elector counts but I don't know if that is total adult Canadian's who are eligible to vote or not. How many non UCP voters (including me) are to blame for the recall campaign perhaps not going as strong as maybe it should? I don't know but they do shoulder blame if they aren't involved I take it? What would you say to a non UCP voting adult who hasn't taken up the petition to send a message?

Yes. I have informed my family members that still live there, given hem directions to the site. Expressed that even if they don't believe trans-youth is a thing at all, the government is using the NMC to subvert court challenges. If they have a problem with that, but take literally no action to help change it when others have already done the hard work, yes, they get what they get.

I would personally like to know what policy, decision, scandal or anything else politically related in local and federal elections you personally are responsible for during your electoral life? It's naive to think that you can vote for parties, people and that their decisions have lead to certain outcomes and you aren't responsible for anything? All the bone headed decisions made over years of politics and your escaping responsibility? Everybody else has blood on their hands and in their soul but your clean?

No, we share the responsibility, that's the point. A segment of us doesn't get to plead blissful ignorance when the policies they specifically voted for start to take shape and they don't like the very foreseeable outcome. Start calling out your own side.

As for the liberals, they booted their own PM and replaced him with a Harper conservative and Liberals voted for him. You can't argue there wasn't action taken against dissatisfaction. Meanwhile, the Cons parachuted their 2-time loser to a riding he's never stepped in just to keep him alive. If they had any self awareness they'd dump him.

[belsarius]

I hired a dogwalker because he was cheap and all my friends said he was the best. He ended up kicking my dog and I had to take it to the vet.

When I went to hire a new dogwalker my friends said this other one was too expensive and I should go back to the first guy because they said it was a "one of" and he wouldn't do it again, he loves dogs.

So I hired him again and he ended up letting my dog run into traffic and get killed.

Do I hold any responsibility for hiring him again?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by curves2000

This is the problem I have with you and other people's theories that voters have serious responsibility over decisions. Let's use Calgary Bow as an example, a riding that is effectively a toss up next election based on last results. Elections AB lists Calgary Bow as having 40 000 elector counts but I don't know if that is total adult Canadian's who are eligible to vote or not. How many non UCP voters (including me) are to blame for the recall campaign perhaps not going as strong as maybe it should? I don't know but they do shoulder blame if they aren't involved I take it? What would you say to a non UCP voting adult who hasn't taken up the petition to send a message?

I would personally like to know what policy, decision, scandal or anything else politically related in local and federal elections you personally are responsible for during your electoral life? It's naive to think that you can vote for parties, people and that their decisions have lead to certain outcomes and you aren't responsible for anything? All the bone headed decisions made over years of politics and your escaping responsibility? Everybody else has blood on their hands and in their soul but your clean?

Lots of people just aren't aware of politics or news in general. And that's fine...as long as they didn't translate that ignorance into a vote for evil.

Thankfully there have been very few examples of this level of evil in Canada in the last several decades. But feel free to bring a single example that you think is comparable to this and I'll be glad to admonish those voters. I am really on the edge of my seat here...I know you won't disappoint.

[TorqueDog]

I fully expect curves to continue to ignore my reply where I actually get out in front of his points in granting that it isn't formal responsibility on the part of the voter, but that doesn't excuse the voter repeatedly making bad decisions in who they vote for with easily predictable consequences.

[Fuzz]

The road boss also says people should be very careful when they look at statistics. He points to almost half a million more drivers in Alberta in the last six years.

If you have more accidents in certain areas you also have more vehicles that could get into accidents. He doesn’t care for individuals cherry-picking numbers.

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...vided-highways

Please tell me this is just UCP gaslighting, and not our transportation minister unaware of how statistics work, as in incidents per 100k. Please.

The speed limit increase, if it comes, will likely be in the spring after the 120-km/h speed limit is given a tryout on a stretch of Highway 2.

Yes, why not test it first on Alberta's busiest highway.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I fully expect curves to continue to ignore my reply where I actually get out in front of his points in granting that it isn't formal responsibility on the part of the voter, but that doesn't excuse the voter repeatedly making bad decisions in who they vote for with easily predictable consequences.

You think I am somehow defending these people and this government, that is not the case, I am actually one of the few people who advocate for a lot more civil disobedience when ANY of these ****ers mess up. I just don't understand how it's the voters who are to blame or somehow bare big responsibility.

You name it, a lot of political people deserve it. Heckled out in public, having their food screwed with in restaurants, physical harm, physical attacks and even a lot worse.

People let them off the hook way too easy here in Canada. A few unfortunate accidents to get the message across.

But ya, you and I are to blame

[TorqueDog]

Well it's simple, man.

Politician: "My name is Peter Picklefuсker of the UCP, I'm going to lower your taxes and put my dick in all your pickle jars."
Conservative voters: "OMG HE'S GOING TO LOWER TAXES AND HE'S CONSERVATIVE, VOTE VOTE VOTE."
Literally everyone else: "Wait, did you not hear that he's gonna stick his dick in our pickle jars?"
--later--
Politician: "HEE HEE! *plop* Another pickle jar with my dick in it! How's this for a baby dill?"
Literally everyone else: "You fuсking idiots voted for this guy and now this asshоle is sticking his dick in all the pickle jars."
Conservative voters: "Don't blame us, we didn't do it!"

Did they know it was likely that he was going to stick his dick in the pickle jars before voting for him? It wasn't like he told them he was a picklefuсker before-hand, right?

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Yes, why not test it first on Alberta's busiest highway.

*sigh* Everyone already does 120+. This is simply going to reduce the average speed differential by making the "I only do the speed limit" types go 120 as well. Studies repeatedly show that increasing speed limits to a speed that people are mostly already doing does not cause those people to speed up commensurately with the PSL increase.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by curves2000

You think I am somehow defending these people and this government, that is not the case, I am actually one of the few people who advocate for a lot more civil disobedience when ANY of these ****ers mess up. I just don't understand how it's the voters who are to blame or somehow bare big responsibility.

You name it, a lot of political people deserve it. Heckled out in public, having their food screwed with in restaurants, physical harm, physical attacks and even a lot worse.

People let them off the hook way too easy here in Canada. A few unfortunate accidents to get the message across.

But ya, you and I are to blame

So people let them off the hook, but don't blame them for letting them off the hook?

You, and I and (especially) the people who continue to vote for them despite terribleness, are letting them off the hook. If the recalls don't happen, they are being let off the hook.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...vided-highways

Please tell me this is just UCP gaslighting, and not our transportation minister unaware of how statistics work, as in incidents per 100k. Please.


Yes, why not test it first on Alberta's busiest highway.

Really sad to see someone in charge of transportation calling them "accidents" when they are in fact crashes.

Also, higher density/congestion generally leads to fewer serious crashes per capita. One could argue we are just on the wrong side of that tipping point, but it is absolutely the system we designed for ourselves here that is the biggest problem.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Not at all. Although I am a Conservative (didn't vote UCP last election) I never believe in directing full blame for everything to voters.

Originally Posted by curves2000

I am saying this as someone who DID NOT vote UCP

Originally Posted by curves2000

How many non UCP voters (including me) are to blame for the recall campaign perhaps not going as strong as maybe it should?

I'm starting to think you voted UCP.

[Looch City]

What the hell is the entire point of this debate anyway?

We aren't allowed to judge people based on the party they voted for?

What's your thesis is one clear concise sentence??