High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[troutman]

Plenty Of Fish - Introducing the NDP “No Dick Pics” Badge

https://help.pof.com/hc/en-us/articl...ick-Pics-Badge

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Itse

Rammstein also has extremely devoted fans, so you can imagine that the fan response has been very mixed, with plenty of people refusing to face the truth about their favorite band.

it's worse than this, there's a considerable number of people amongst their fan base who openly harrass these women and accuse them of just wanting fame/money ... and who think that these women must have known what those aftershow parties were all about. Pretty disgusting stuff, but hardly surprising.

It's huge news over here obviously, no German speaking band is bigger than Rammstein. I hope there's going to be a thorough investigation about this, including harsh consequences for everybody involved if true. Unfortunately, these things seem hard to prove.

[cam_calderon]

Don't want to sound like I'm victim blaming, but what, exactly, did the women expect would happen at the after parties? It is rock'n'roll, after all.

Doesn't make any alleged assaults okay, of course. But sometimes you can't be so naïve.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Don't want to sound like I'm victim blaming, but what, exactly, did the women expect would happen at the after parties? It is rock'n'roll, after all.

Doesn't make any alleged assaults okay, of course. But sometimes you can't be so naïve.

Well, I doubt very much they expected to be drugged and raped. Which, unless you were going to party with a rapist… seems like a totally fair and not-naive expectation?

[devo22]

as long as it's consenting sex among adults, nobody gives a ####. But there's also accusations of violence, rape, spiked drinks and so on.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Don't want to sound like I'm victim blaming, but what, exactly, did the women expect would happen at the after parties? It is rock'n'roll, after all.

Doesn't make any alleged assaults okay, of course. But sometimes you can't be so naïve.

Don't want to be rude, but maybe read at least the whole post before commenting, so you don't sound stupid.

And also, you're 100% victim blaming.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Well, I doubt very much they expected to be drugged and raped. Which, unless you were going to party with a rapist… seems like a totally fair and not-naive expectation?

But they knew that it was an after party with a band where sex might occur. That means they consented to whatever. I bet they were wearing skimpy clothing as well.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by devo22

no German speaking band is bigger than Rammstein

The Hoff would never have done this.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Itse

There is of course some similarities here to Marilyn Manson, another rocker with lyrics discussing the darker sides of human sexuality. The main difference of course being that Manson abused his partner(s?), while Lindemann has been systematically abusing his female fans.

There is no similarities at all. What Lindermann did is pure sexual predatory rape. He drugged girls at after parties and raped them. Marilyn Manson was accused of sexual misconduct by a jilted ex who followed the same path as her best friend Amber Heard did with Johnny Depp to try and destroy her ex while profiting from it. The other women Evan Racheal Wood drew into her scheme have dropped out since Manson countersued. There has been multiple famous exes of Manson that have backed him in his claims that everything he ever did with them was totally consensual and there are other witnesses coming forward to testify she was in fact the more aggressive crazy one in the relationship. They are not comparable at all. One is a case of a sick bastard drugging unsuspecting women for sex, the other is a guy having his career ruined by a crazy ex looking for a bigger spotlight and a pay day. Do I agree with Manson's ideas behind sex and masochism? Not at all but the evidence coming out is showing she was absolutely into that as well.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by devo22

as long as it's consenting sex among adults, nobody gives a ####. But there's also accusations of violence, rape, spiked drinks and so on.

Sure, but as in so many sexual assault cases, it's unlikely anything will ever be proven in a court of law.

[Locke]

Man...in 10 or 20 years when the 'tell all books' come out the kinds of horrible crap we're going to start hearing about our favourite bands and artists is going to make us sick.

[cam_calderon]

I think at a certain point you can separate the art from the artist, though. I'm a big fan of Good Will Hunting - should I feel guilty for rewatching a Weinstein film?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Locke

Man...in 10 or 20 years when the 'tell all books' come out the kinds of horrible crap we're going to start hearing about our favourite bands and artists is going to make us sick.

True, but at least we are changing what was covered up and deemed acceptable in the name of rock and roll.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I think at a certain point you can separate the art from the artist, though. I'm a big fan of Good Will Hunting - should I feel guilty for rewatching a Weinstein film?

This is something that we, as a society, are going to have to figure out.

Separating the Art from the Artist.

I can do it, to a degree, but I think its really going to come down to individual conscience on a case-by-case basis.

Some people's lines will be drawn in different places for different artists for different offences. As long as 'The Law's' line remains steady and constant. No freebies for superstars.

For some people this is just 'Sex, Drugs and Rock 'N Roll!'

For others this is drugging and raping women and a felony...well, numerous felonies.

I just find it so odd.

The girls are already at your back-stage party...I'd say your odds are already pretty good? You probably didnt need to drug or rape them?

They're going to eventually make people have to sign a waiver or something.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I think at a certain point you can separate the art from the artist, though. I'm a big fan of Good Will Hunting - should I feel guilty for rewatching a Weinstein film?

I have a hard time respecting Bowie’s art now that I understand he raped 14 year old girls.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

There is no similarities at all. What Lindermann did is pure sexual predatory rape. He drugged girls at after parties and raped them. Marilyn Manson was accused of sexual misconduct by a jilted ex who followed the same path as her best friend Amber Heard did with Johnny Depp to try and destroy her ex while profiting from it. The other women Evan Racheal Wood drew into her scheme have dropped out since Manson countersued. There has been multiple famous exes of Manson that have backed him in his claims that everything he ever did with them was totally consensual and there are other witnesses coming forward to testify she was in fact the more aggressive crazy one in the relationship. They are not comparable at all. One is a case of a sick bastard drugging unsuspecting women for sex, the other is a guy having his career ruined by a crazy ex looking for a bigger spotlight and a pay day. Do I agree with Manson's ideas behind sex and masochism? Not at all but the evidence coming out is showing she was absolutely into that as well.

Evan Rachel Wood drew other women into her “scheme”? Maybe look outside of the Marilyn Manson fan club, because you you might have that wrong.

A Los Angeles judge sided with Wood in striking several claims in Warner’s original complaint including that she had “recruited, coordinated, and pressured” women to make false statements against the musician using a checklist and script, and claims that Wood had forged an FBI letter.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...it-1234732015/

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Evan Rachel Wood drew other women into her “scheme”? Maybe look outside of the Marilyn Manson fan club, because you you might have that wrong.



https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...it-1234732015/

https://apnews.com/article/marilyn-m...723cc64ca45eb0

So a judge would not allow the woman to testify how Wood manipulated the situation so I don't have it wrong, the judge handled this terribly and I am glad Manson's lawyers are appealing. The evidence was there, the judge just would not allow it . Now her son who can't stand her craziness wants to live with his father so she is trying to blame that on Manson as well. Wood is an absolute nutjob. I am also not a Manson fan, I think most of his music sucks and he can't sing for crap. What I absolutely despise though is anyone who would take advantage of something as important as the Me Too movement for personal gain and personal grudges. Wait until everything comes out in trial, ERW will end up broker than Amber Heard and rightfully so. You can't just destroy a guys whole career on a bunch of bs and profit from it.

[Itse]

I will admit I haven't followed the Manson thing that closely, which is related to where I personally draw the line in this art/artist thing. I don't really care that much what went on with Manson and Wood. Ultimately, that's private demons in a private relationship. The type of art Manson makes does make the situation feel a bit more complicated, but ultimately in this case it's pretty easy for me to see the art and the artists personal issues as pretty separate. It's not even related to all his personal relationships. I can still mostly listen to Manson just fine.

In this Rammstein/Lindemann situation, there's just zero separation between art and artist. He's bringing women from Rammstein concerts to semi-official Rammstein afterparties, and then abusing the power and status he has over those women, who are there specifically because they're fans of his art. This is Lindemann very directly and systematically using his art and his position as an artist to abuse women and then get away with it.

(These situations also just always makes me wonder how effed in the head you have to be to do this stuff. It's not like it would be hard to find women willing to sleep with him 100% consensually.)

[blankall]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Don't want to sound like I'm victim blaming, but what, exactly, did the women expect would happen at the after parties? It is rock'n'roll, after all.

Doesn't make any alleged assaults okay, of course. But sometimes you can't be so naïve.

Drink spiking should never occur.

I get what you're saying that if you're a hot girl in the from row, you should expect that you are being invited back because of you're looks. That might lead to guys making passes at you, etc.... However, being drugged without your knowledge and assaulted when you are unconscious? That's a while other level and one of the worst. If anything you'd expect a celebrity not to do those things, and expect them from sleazy guys at the bar.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Don't want to sound like I'm victim blaming, but what, exactly, did the women expect would happen at the after parties? It is rock'n'roll, after all.

Doesn't make any alleged assaults okay, of course. But sometimes you can't be so naïve.

Don't want to sound like you're victim blaming, but you 100% are.

Women should expect to be drugged and raped if they get invited to a band's after party?