Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by stamps

You spend thousands of dollars a year going to the Saddledome and are unwilling to spend about 5 dollars a year on your property tax bill to have a new arena ?? A man of principal ... you cannot see the public benefit of having a new arena and the city chipping in to make it happen because the other people contributing have too much money and the players make too much money and they will be making too much money off of you as opposed to now... is that right ???

I spend thousands of dollars a year at restaurants, and am unwilling to have the city build the same restaurants new buildings.

I spend thousands of dollars a year at grocery stores, and am unwilling to have the city build the same grocery stores new buildings.

I spend thousands of dollars a year at bars, and am unwilling to have the city build the same bars new buildings.

I spend thousands of dollars a year at my house, and am unwilling to have the city build me a new house.

I spend thousands of dollars a year at a movie theater, and am unwilling to have the city build the same theaters new buildings.

Businesses provide goods and services to the public. The public pays for those goods and services. The money paid by customers keeps the business afloat so they can continue to provide more goods and services. That's generally how it works.

Is that what you mean by principled?

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

*boggling intensifies*

Are you either:
A, A drive by artist that isn't contributing.
B, denying that there are any subsidies to all kinds of businesses, institutions, organizations and for profit places?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by RM14

Now that the Flames are done talking, it would be cool if they released some of the Vic Park renderings if they have any..

I think this might be it.

Spoiler!

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by RM14

Now that the Flames are done talking, it would be cool if they released some of the Vic Park renderings if they have any..

They barely spent any money on their CalgaryNEXT proposal, they wouldn't spend anything for renderings on a different proposal.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Are you either:
A, A drive by artist that isn't contributing.
B, denying that there are any subsidies to all kinds of businesses, institutions, organizations and for profit places?

I think the answer is C, the poster recognizes that subsidies are given to all kinds of businesses, institutions, organizations and for profit places. They also recognize that the solution to eliminating unnecessary subsidies is not to continue handing them out like candy without any sort of due diligence from our elected officials to ensure that they are worth the investment.

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I think the answer is C, the poster recognizes that subsidies are given to all kinds of businesses, institutions, organizations and for profit places. They also recognize that the solution to eliminating unnecessary subsidies is not to continue handing them out like candy without any sort of due diligence from our elected officials to ensure that they are worth the investment.

And the subsidy the Flames want is the range of half a billion dollars.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by stamps

You spend thousands of dollars a year going to the Saddledome and are unwilling to spend about 5 dollars a year on your property tax bill to have a new arena ??

Why don't the Flames just charge a bit more for events and build it themselves if it is just that easy? 850,000 "transactions" a year just from the Flames alone, that's more transactions than there are 'dwellings' for property tax.

Then have a donation option for people just willing to fork over the cash to speed up the repayment.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I think the answer is C, the poster recognizes that subsidies are given to all kinds of businesses, institutions, organizations and for profit places. They also recognize that the solution to eliminating unnecessary subsidies is not to continue handing them out like candy without any sort of due diligence from our elected officials to ensure that they are worth the investment.

He insinuated that he doesn't support any subsidized entertainment. Pretty much every TV show and movie made around here is subsidized by local government, either Calgary or Alberta.

I imagine he's never gone to the Saddledome, which was 100% taxpayer subsidized.

Or maybe, just maybe, is it this one business?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

And the subsidy the Flames want is the range of half a billion dollars.

What is that per property? What's the average hit per municipal ratepayer?

[stone hands]

Does saying it's $5 a year make the fact that the city has to allocate hundreds of millions of dollars of money it could spend on things like roads and schools to this just not register with people?

[RM14]

Originally Posted by stone hands

Does saying it's $5 a year make the fact that the city has to allocate hundreds of millions of dollars of money it could spend on things like roads and schools to this just not register with people?

Roads are fine, I know nothing about schools as I don't have kids, but the City isn't exactly falling apart. We can have all of these things just fine.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by RM14

Roads are fine, I know nothing about schools as I don't have kids, but the City isn't exactly falling apart. We can have all of these things just fine.

You realize you are acknowledging you don't know enough of the facts to make an informed assessment about what the city needs to have or address while at the same time you are trying to pass off your assessment of what the city can or can't afford have or address as credible right?

[RM14]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

You realize you are acknowledging you don't know enough of the facts to make an informed assessment about what the city needs to have or address while at the same time you are trying to pass off your assessment of what the city can or can't afford have or address as credible right?

Yes I acknowledge I do not know all the facts.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He insinuated that he doesn't support any subsidized entertainment. Pretty much every TV show and movie made around here is subsidized by local government, either Calgary or Alberta.

I imagine he's never gone to the Saddledome, which was 100% taxpayer subsidized.

Or maybe, just maybe, is it this one business?

Because governments make/made bad decisions should not be used to justify making further bad decisions.

[taxbuster]

Just read the Eric Francis column in the Herald (a friend called me about it as I'm in New Brunswick travelling). What a {{censored because EF has apparently threatened people for calling him names}}!

Bettman is a tool - just what we need: a smarmy, mealy-mouthed New York lawyer who works for 30 mega-rich guys telling us how to run our country, province and city.....oh, yah, he knows.

"Bend over, each and every one of you......"

Methinks Bettman just won the election for Nenshi.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Just read the Eric Francis column in the Herald (a friend called me about it as I'm in New Brunswick travelling). What a {{censored because EF has apparently threatened people for calling him names}}!

Bettman is a tool - just what we need: a smarmy, mealy-mouthed New York lawyer who works for 30 mega-rich guys telling us how to run our country, province and city.....oh, yah, he knows.

"Bend over, each and every one of you......"

Methinks Bettman just won the election for Nenshi.

At the end of the day we all know what the issue is. They want free money and the Mayor is reluctant to give it to them.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Methinks Bettman just won the election for Nenshi.

Frankly I think he's only increasing the margin of victory.

[Redlan]

Originally Posted by stone hands

Does saying it's $5 a year make the fact that the city has to allocate hundreds of millions of dollars of money it could spend on things like roads and schools to this just not register with people?

The Spin Doctors that all the Anti-CSEC group are...you fail to see that people without children are still paying for schools on their taxes (even at provincial levels) and roads even if they live downtown and commute by foot/bike. The list goes on; I never go to the emergency room/hospital but yet I pay for habitual users of the system, or ones that choose vises that stain the system but refuse to adjust their lifestyle...the same people that claim it is free! It is so easy to put up your road block claims and never analyze what it actually means, I am going to refer to it as the Big Mac argument, yes it is a burger but it is any good... any real sustenance?

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by Redlan

The Spin Doctors that all the Anti-CSEC group are...you fail to see that people without children are still paying for schools on their taxes (even at provincial levels) and roads even if they live downtown and commute by foot/bike. The list goes on; I never go to the emergency room/hospital but yet I pay for habitual users of the system, or ones that choose vises that stain the system but refuse to adjust their lifestyle...the same people that claim it is free! It is so easy to put up your road block claims and never analyze what it actually means, I am going to refer to it as the Big Mac argument, yes it is a burger but it is any good... any real sustenance?

Could you outline how a Luxury item like the arena is the same as a necessity like a Hospital?

I mean Cancer is indiscriminate. It can happen to anyone.

[stone hands]

Give your head a shake. You want to compare school funding and infrastructure spending to a luxury entertainment product for the financially privileged?

Kids, wether you personally have them or not, need to be educated for the better of society. People need roads to travel across the city. Nobody "needs" the Calgary flames and the NHL except people who are well off and have money to burn on a product they personally enjoy