The Official 10/11 Liverpool F.C. Thread

[Dagger]

Agger is a complete waste at LB. Him and Soto need to star in the middle everyweek.

Thought that Roy didn't have it right. As you highlighted with Meireles for one, and Gerrard as well.

Think that Poulsen is one of the worst players to wear the red shirt. Absolute dross.

The extra time bit was weird as well. Don't know where that really came from, but it's nice to have those minutes on our side. I think in the 05 CL Semi against the rent boys there was 6 minutes as well(felt like 6 days tbh).

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Dagger

Agger is a complete waste at LB. Him and Soto need to star in the middle everyweek.

Thought that Roy didn't have it right. As you highlighted with Meireles for one, and Gerrard as well.

Think that Poulsen is one of the worst players to wear the red shirt. Absolute dross.

The extra time bit was weird as well. Don't know where that really came from, but it's nice to have those minutes on our side. I think in the 05 CL Semi against the rent boys there was 6 minutes as well(felt like 6 days tbh).

For one, he is a bit of a waste at LB, but I think that you have to start getting creative. Against lesser competition, let him play LB, against the big boys, put him back to CB with Skrtel. I think thats our best combo, and I like our Greek God of War! Hes a guy who gets it done in the air. But Soto should be there against some of the lesser lights. It all hinges on Konchesky and how long hes done for.

Meireles was a waste, he didnt make a single good pass all game, and wasted far too many opportunities. Poulson is terrible, its like a downgraded version of Lucas. Granted, I like Lucas, but I'm saying Lucas can do a better job than Poulson, it was like playing with 9 men out there because of Poulson and Meireles, and I like Meireles, he just had a crap game.

The 6 minutes was asinine, what was this idiot doing? It doesnt matter if it works for you, its ridiculous, and it only worked for us because Sunderland let it, they sat back and let us have it. It could have just as easily gone the other way in a tie game, Liverpool were by no means 'dominant' in this match.

[Dagger]

Don't think it should be Agger there against weaker competition. I'd prefer Aurelio over any other LB at the club every week, and it's shocking that he hasn't featured yet. Agger and one of the other 3 CBs would be the best.

Agger's best skill is his ball movement. I think against lesser sides this is a must in our XI.

I don't get why Roy insists on playing defensive football with players that aren't even the best defending esque with as you say Lucas being far better than Poulsen and then the back 4 being for the tactics as discussed.

Agree about Meireles, he was a bit too ambitious with his passing today and nonchalant with the ball.

It only worked for me because we did look the better side over the last 10 minutes. As the commentators said the Sunderland XI had just played on Wednesday and all of our side save Agger and Ngog didn't play at all. Had the flow of the game continued from earlier, I wouldn't have liked it but it works both ways. I agree with you though, it's ridiculous.

Funny how Steve Bruce seems to think Rafa was the problem and Woy is great. Seeing as we twatted his bunch 3-0 last year and this year we were bossed at home and scraped a point.

[united]

Gerard Pique rips Liverpool; says Torres playing in Europa League is embarrassing and he should leave.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...401853,00.html

It's really embarrassing for Nando to play in a team of that quality.
You would not see Messi or Rooney playing in the Europa League - so there is no reason why Nando should be playing there.

Liverpool have shown already this season they are not capable of winning things - and that's it for him now.

[Dagger]

Pique shouldn't be so quick to judge, it wasn't to long ago that he couldn't crack a side that got hammered by Torres by a score of 4-1 at Old Trafford.

[Nuje]

Yep. Torres could have left, and been a top striker anywhere in the world. Staying here, through the hardships, he may very well be one of the most remember players to ever play at Anfield. He doesn't have to stay, but he chooses too. It's why every Reds fan loves the guy.

EDIT - And has anybody googled Tom Hicks and clicked 'news' in the last week? Absolutely dominated by articles of his impending demise. The New York Post among others has been talking about it, and it's truly been a world-wide phenomenon on how publicly this man is hated by Reds fans. There are many stories of banks said to have been approahced by Hicks, getting emails from fans, to simply not loan the man any money. If we keep this up, in 10 days it will be over. Join SOS if you haven't by the way!

[Dagger]

^^^

Yeah I heard Blackstone's servers crashed everyday because they received 7000 emails from supporters daily.

The Wall Street Journal had it on their front page! The Washington Post had it covered as did the New York Post as you say.

Keep it up guys!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by united

Gerard Pique rips Liverpool; says Torres playing in Europa League is embarrassing and he should leave.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...401853,00.html

It's really embarrassing for Nando to play in a team of that quality.
You would not see Messi or Rooney playing in the Europa League - so there is no reason why Nando should be playing there.

Liverpool have shown already this season they are not capable of winning things - and that's it for him now.

Those Barcelona pricks have been getting mighty uppity lately. Wouldnt mind seeing them falter when their own loans come due. Lets not forget that this was a club that failed to pay its players wages over the summer because they were broke and to sell a couple players just to cover their bills. Sure, they got the money and everybody got paid, but other than Man City and free spending Real Madrid this is one of the single most expensive teams in the world.

Originally Posted by Dagger

^^^

Yeah I heard Blackstone's servers crashed everyday because they received 7000 emails from supporters daily.

The Wall Street Journal had it on their front page! The Washington Post had it covered as did the New York Post as you say.

Keep it up guys!

I heard there was a story about a Liverpool fan in NY who saw Hicks go into the Deutschebank, he had his Liverpool scarf and went into a copying store and got a big "Tom Hicks is not Welcome ANYWHERE" sign and stood out front of the bank with it. He sent a picture and a note to SOS and Deutschebank was getting bombarded with emails before Hicks even stepped out of the building.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Locke

Those Barcelona pricks have been getting mighty uppity lately. Wouldnt mind seeing them falter when their own loans come due. Lets not forget that this was a club that failed to pay its players wages over the summer because they were broke and to sell a couple players just to cover their bills. Sure, they got the money and everybody got paid, but other than Man City and free spending Real Madrid this is one of the single most expensive teams in the world.



I heard there was a story about a Liverpool fan in NY who saw Hicks go into the Deutschebank, he had his Liverpool scarf and went into a copying store and got a big "Tom Hicks is not Welcome ANYWHERE" sign and stood out front of the bank with it. He sent a picture and a note to SOS and Deutschebank was getting bombarded with emails before Hicks even stepped out of the building.

Agree about Barca.

Yeah, I saw that on RAWK. Vaqqa or something wasn't it? Apparently, Hicks saw him in his standards corrupted top and his SOS sign, and told the policeman that he was trouble, leading the policeman to shout at him. Either way well in.

I think it was like Erin something that had the Hicks thing up on twitter.

[Nuje]

Christ, you know it's bad when you go to grab your morning coffee, and you hear from the girl working there "I heard your soccer team sucks" (shop owned by a Man U fan). I've been posting mostly about the owners lately, but I just want it to end, now!...I've just noticed that the LFC Calgary site has been changed to black in protest until the turds are gone.

Anyways, so in light of my negative posts lately, Utrecht Tuesday at 11am, will be on TLN. Blackpool Sunday morning. Let's hope for 3 points on that for sure, hopefully followed by a comical interview by Ian Holloway.

Speaking of managers, I have to ask a question too...who's been happy with Woy so far? Sure the ownership situation is a problem, but I've been unimpressed with him so far.

To close my post of many topics...nice sig quote (well, sorta quote) Locke.

[Dagger]

Speaking of Holloway, he's already said that he will be playing his aggressive 4-3-3, and he's going to take it to us and test the back 4.

Roy is terrible. Ownership issues aside, he's an inept manager, and I think it's fairly obvious why he's had 27 teams in 44 years managing. I hate how Sky try and portray it as if it's been 27 sparkling clubs too, he's failed at most of them.

Here's the scary thing. At winning 50% of our games(including the Europa ones, which he hardly managed) he's 10% above his average winning percentage. That's a scary stat to me.

We needed Pellegrini, but natually Sky think we needed an Englishman, playing a 442, Gerrard at CM, man to man marking, and no Lucas. And naturally the cocks Purslow and Broughton obliged. The result? 3-0 away to City, getting bossed at OT, bossed by Northampton, West Brom, and Sunderland at Anfield.

[Nuje]

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news...cle590971.html

Holy crap!!! Is anybody sick and tired of these mother !#$%^% snakes in our mother #!$%$^ stadium??? If Samuel L Jackson ends up in that, simply wow. Either way, perfect timing for it unless something awful happens until the weekend. The big guns are out now. This information will be mainstream all over after this.

[Dagger]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...k-2362665.html

Football is a lie.' Anybody who has spent any time with Rafael Benitez will have heard these words. There are a million lies in football, a hundred thousand ways for the flimflam men and the bullters to prosper.

For Liverpool to prosper, it was concluded that Benitez would have to leave. His exit, it was said, would lead to an explosion of joy among the ranks of the players who had been worn down by his obsessiveness, his relentless demands and his cold, cold heart. The club, it was said, needed a break from his plotting. Things could only get better.

Today, as Benitez's Inter Milan face Juventus at the San Siro, Liverpool play a team one point above them in the Premier League: Blackpool. Before the game, the supporters will be marching in the streets in protest against Tom Hicks and George Gillett whose duplicity Benitez did so much to expose. The chief executive Christian Purslow, brought in to sell the club, is still there, still looking for owners, still reassuring the key players that all will be well. Within days, Liverpool could be in administration but, for many Liverpool fans, the possible nine-point penalty (there could be a loophole which allows Liverpool to avoid it which would almost certainly lead to a legal objection from Liverpool's challengers) is preferable to Hicks and Gillett refinancing. On the pitch, Roy Hodgson, the man Purslow appointed, appears to have made things worse.

And all it took was the removal of Benitez to bring the feel-good factor back.

Many ignored the complexities involved in managing a club owned by leverage kings while Benitez was in charge. Only now is the extent of his achievement becoming clear.

His refusal to play the media game or to back down or to be pragmatic in any way alienated those who form opinion. For a long time, nobody listened to their opinions at Anfield. In the last year, they did.

"Did we make mistakes? Obviously," Benitez said last week. "But 82, 86 points, four trophies, three more finals in a difficult time when the owners were changing, when the chief executives were changing. A lot of things were changing. Now people can see it, no? It was a big, big problem."

Benitez took the hits but held the club together. If he was shunned by the opinion-formers, it wasn't because he wasn't political. In the last year he went, as one ally puts it, "to war". He always felt there was a better way to do things

Benitez wants to look forward to his challenge at Inter, it is how he has persuaded himself a football man should be, but he cannot shake the sadness about his departure from the club and the city he and his family love. Those who know him well say he is more relaxed now than he was during that draining final twelve months.

After three hours in his company on Wednesday, I could see why his friends want him to talk to the media more often. David Conachy, the Sunday Independent photographer, was surprised by his warmth and wit, having expected a brooding, more explosive, presence.

But Benitez is wary too. Football is a lie and he has observed how some use the media to promote their versions of the story. At one point, he jumps from his seat, refusing to pose in a certain way because it is, he says, the kind of picture one of his enemies would sit for. Above all else, he is wary of being a phoney.

Liverpool, it was said, needed a manager who would put his arm around a player's shoulder. But they can't hug out their problems, as Hodgson is discovering.

"Everybody has weak points and I have weak points for sure," Benitez says. "People say I don't put my arm round the shoulder. It's not true. I am talking to the players every day. I like to know about them but my priority is football."

His priority has always been football. "I have been doing this job all my life," he says and it is barely an exaggeration. "Always in my head I was a manager."

He talks about his childhood in terms of football. His father was a commercial director of a hotel -- "he didn't like too much football" -- and a busy man so "I remember my mother taking me to the Bernabeu for training".

His career as a player was ended by injury but he was ready. Managing is his lifetime's work. He sleeps a few hours each night and he is always thinking of ways to be better. He may think too much.

"I think the manager is eternally dissatisfied because he wants more and more and more. I'm this kind of manager. I like to improve, to do better every time. Some times you know that you will need more time so you have to be calm but still you have to improve."

Does he ever look back on his great nights with pride and contentment?

"I have notes of everything, every single season, every single day. What I did this, or how I changed my approach to a player. One hundred per cent, I am analysing and I am always talking to my staff."

It's hardly The Time of Our Lives with Jeff Stelling. Benitez couldn't act clubbable. Last month, Jamie Carragher gave an interview in which he talked of the need for Liverpool to get back to traditional values.

[Dagger]

"We've had situations like Martin O'Neill and Steve Bruce criticising Liverpool and they were right," Carragher said. "We shouldn't be getting involved with stuff like that. Everyone else should look at Liverpool and say they have dignity, class. I mean, like the way people look at Arsenal."

It was unfortunate timing as Arsene Wenger then spent the next month fighting with everyone, including match officials.

"I didn't see his quote but I like Carra as a player and he has to keep focusing on doing things well for Liverpool. Maybe he has an opinion but I don't think Shankly would agree with him. For me the manager of Liverpool Football Club has to defend the club and his players against everyone. The name of the other manager doesn't matter. If you know the story inside you will understand why these managers are talking and I think for our fans it's very clear.

"If you see the friends that these people have you will understand why. It's obvious that there are people who are close to some people and they like to protect each other."

Benitez was apart and, equally as dangerously, became convinced of his own separateness. Again, it is the way he believes a manager has to be.

"When you work hard and you have an idea and you want to carry on with your idea people say 'oh you are stubborn'. I think you have to have a conviction when you work with the players, when you know the players and when you talk with your staff. It's essential if you want to convince them. All the managers have the same idea."

He was a physical education teacher and one of the ways he sees himself as different to his predecessor at Inter, Jose Mourinho, is in his approach to footballers.

"I like to teach them. I am sure if they learn they will know things for the rest of their lives. If you can win in one year with the best players, saying we have to win this game, this game, the next game that's one way. But when you teach them the way and you ask them how to do things, it's different. At the end, they will know and they will remember all their lives."

He is trying to change things at Inter while keeping the things they did well under Mourinho. Before he arrived in Milan, he read in the Spanish press how Mourinho could control everything from his manager's office at the Angelo Moratti Training Centre. There was a window with a panoramic view that allowed him to see all that was happening on the training fields. During my time in Benitez's spartan office on Wednesday, I couldn't see this window. Football is a lie.

Mourinho's achievements cannot be disputed but Benitez would not be the man he is if he didn't think he could do more.

"The players are happy because we are trying to play more football, more on the floor, the passing is better. They were doing good things in the past and especially in the transition, the counter-attack, they were quite good. Now we have more possession but it takes time to adjust. It will be almost impossible to win more trophies in one year, we know that, but at least we will try to win some of them with style."

Inter are top of Serie A but one defeat is a crisis in Italy. He has the squad that won the European Cup, but he may have liked to have new faces to challenge the players who achieved so much last season.

Benitez is not going to rest on somebody else's laurels. On Wednesday night, Inter beat Werder Bremen 4-0. It was an important result but again perhaps football lied as it was not a performance that merited 4-0.

Inter suits Benitez too. He looks to Turin, to Juventus and sees the questionable powerbase of Italian football. He looks to the south, to Rome and sees the capital with its influence and he looks to Milanello, AC Milan's famed training camp and he sees Silvio Berlusconi and his authority. Italy is the kind of country where a man can collect enemies.

His friends from Liverpool are still around. They are thinking about Inter now but they form a government in exile, always aware of what is happening at the club they love.

He has changed, he says, everybody changes. The former Real Madrid manager Luis Molowny, who died earlier this year, once told him that it is important to be patient. Molowny's name is written on a piece of paper pinned to his office wall so his advice is on his mind. He says he is more patient now than he used to be.

The signings that didn't work out at Liverpool might be among the things he'd change. "I'll say it again, we made mistakes. But people are talking about players who were not good enough, if you put five or six of these players together, the cost would be five million. It's not easy to wheel and deal and at the same time to win and sign players like Torres, Reina, Mascherano, Aquilani, Skrtel, Johnson, Lucas Leiva, Agger or Kuyt."

These are the players he left behind. "I was very clear that when I left we had a better squad than we had in the past, and a better team. We knew we had to bring in better players. We left a good team, a very good team. A lot of people are talking about the legacy but the legacy is fantastic. When I left the club, Mascherano, Benayoun and Riera were there, along with Carra, Gerrard, Spearing, Darby. Insua, Cavalieri and Shelvey. They cannot talk about legacy when Purslow and Hodgson signed seven players. They have already changed the squad."

Gerard Houllier said he left a legacy too, claiming that in Istanbul the players told him it was his side that had won the European Cup. "I didn't see Houllier on the way to Istanbul or at half-time," he said sardonically. "After the game, I gave him permission to come into the dressing room and we couldn't get him out, even with boiling water! That's a Spanish expression."

Among Benitez's mistakes were Robbie Keane and the alienation of Xabi Alonso in one crucial summer. Keane was, he says, a "good player and a fantastic professional who needed a target man with him". But, crucially, Gareth Barry was Benitez's priority. "Barry was the first but I was not doing the business and I couldn't control it. The timing was a problem. I thought we had the money and it was obvious we didn't have the money."

Benitez had rumbled Hicks and Gillett before this but as they scrambled and failed to find the money for Barry, his plans unravelled. The collateral damage was significant too: Xabi Alonso was lost.

"In the last season Alonso played his best season for us. That is the reason people are talking about him. It was his last year when he gave us his best."

In Alonso's last season, Benitez drove his team towards the title. Liverpool finished second, a stunning achievement given his resources and the apocalypse that was heading Liverpool's way thanks to Hicks and Gillett and the recession caused by men like them.

Benitez's handling of the attempted sale of Alonso the year before alienated the player and ensured he would go. But Benitez planned to replace him with Alberto Aquilani and the Montenegrin Stevan Jovetic. The sale of Alonso was a controversial and ruthless decision and, as so often at Liverpool, he wasn't allowed full control of the solution.

Instead he was given half of what he asked for. Suddenly the money disappeared, as it tends to when working for the indebted. Benitez's last season began with Liverpool as many people's title favourites. But the manager couldn't conceal the club's problems anymore.

"It was a long time, it wasn't just one thing," he says of the process that wore him down. "The feeling was that something was wrong, we couldn't do what we wanted to do. We were preparing the signings and the sales but we could see that we have some targets and we didn't do it."

[Dagger]

VS this from Hodgson:

It is insulting to suggest that because you move to a new club, your methods suddenly don't work when they've held you in good stead for 35 years and made you one of the most respected coaches in Europe. It's unbelievable,' he said.
'I've had two-and-a-half wonderful years (at Fulham) where nothing ever negative was said about me and my team. Now maybe people are saying negative things. It doesn't change anything. I work the same way as I did last year.
'My methods have translated from Halmstads to Malmo to Orebro to Neuchatel Xamax to the Swiss national team and many other jobs as well. I am doing the same things and the most important things to me are the players.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...#ixzz11E89Y0ar

'We are six games into a 38-game season. I couldn't give a monkey's whether we're 16th or 18th at the moment. Be realistic, don't insult my intelligence with that. What bothers me is that we have only got six points and I would have liked a few more. But then I knew Manchester United and Manchester City were going to be tough games. I knew Arsenal with 10 men was going to be a tough game, so maybe six points isn't so bad at all. We are averaging two points from the other three.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...#ixzz11E7uhZPg

He said: 'I don't understand questions about Liverpool and Fulham players being different types. At the moment arguably one or two of the players that are suggested as being very different to the Fulham players maybe aren't playing any better than the Fulham players played. So maybe people should be having a look at that. If I can be accusatory of some journalists, I think they work on names and not on performances. A judgment is based on their name and not necessarily what they have actually done on the day.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...#ixzz11E8HDZSk

And Fat head, Fat Sam, and Mr. Alex "knight all of my players" Ferguson call Rafa the arrogant one, that isn't right for Liverpool unlike Woy.

[Jagger]

Blackpool.
FFS

Absolute. Rock. Bottom.

Or maybe not.

Scary thought.

[Nuje]

Simply blown away.

At the pub today, the attire of choice was Shankly shirts over red. I still wore mine. It has since gone in a box, where it will stay, until this is all over.

Dagger, thanks for the posts re: Rafa and Hodgson. I want to, and will support Liverpool's manager as long as it's appropriate. However, I think Hodgson may simply be one of those men who was given the benefit of the doubt due to his nationality, following Rafa's inability to win the league (but damn did he get close...with a budget that could be compared to buying a brand new BMW on minimum wage). Rafa knows football. Rafa didn't grow up in Liverpool, not even England. But he accepted in his very soul everything that was this club. He felt as strongly about this club as all of the fans do. Between his feeling for this club (easily proven by his donation to HJC, which he did privately, without any media, without seeking attention for it), and his knowledge of football, we lost a truly special manager here.

You can say anything about the further player changes due to being poor as hell (Mascherano out really is the only seriously major one here, and while Benayoun was good, we did get Joe Cole), but it's not like Hodgson's just hitting below par here. If we go into administration, we don't even have the fataing points to pay the 9 point penalty!! You go on about your success in other places, but the fact is that you've had many jobs. Many jobs that you didn't walk off yourself like you did with Fulham. Either way, unless Hodgson proves his worth quick, he'll be sacked once new owners are in, and the reason given will be that "hey, we didn't hire you. We have a different guy in mind"

[united]

Originally Posted by Nuje

However, I think Hodgson may simply be one of those men who was given the benefit of the doubt due to his nationality, following Rafa's inability to win the league (but damn did he get close...with a budget that could be compared to buying a brand new BMW on minimum wage).

Liverpool had a higher net spend over his tenure than Arsenal, Everton, or Manchester United. Budget is not a valid reason.

[NBC]

Hodgson faces Liverpool fight

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnul...ool_fight.html

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by united

Liverpool had a higher net spend over his tenure than Arsenal, Everton, or Manchester United. Budget is not a valid reason.

Arsenal under Wenger is an experiment. He pays top dollar for young talent all over the world, and then fills the holes in with cheaper buys or bigger ones(Arshavin, Nasri).

Don't fool yourself, Ferguson's net spend is only lower because of the Ronaldo fee.

But shall we compare bad buys? How about Veron for 30MP? Berbatov for 30MP? Anderson for 20MP? Hargreaves for 18MP? Carrick for 18MP? Forlan, who Ferguson lost 5+ M on. Saha for a shade under 13MP?

Compare that to Rafa's Robbie Keane(who Parry bought, not Rafa) who took a 5MP loss, Pennant who was a 6.5MP loss, and Aquilani who at most loses 5MP because of shear incompetence from Purslow and Hodgson.

Let's look at the price of the squad for United in 08/09 shall we?

GK: VDS 2MP
RB: Neville(academy)
CB: Vidic(7MP)
CB:Ferdinand(30MP)
LB: Evra(5.5MP)
RM: Nani(20MP)
CM: Carrick(18MP)
CM: Scholes
LM: Ronaldo(20MP)
ST: Tevez(32MP)
ST: Rooney(26MP)

Bench:
Park(4MP)
Anderson(20MP)
Fletcher(academy)
Hargreaves(18MP)
Saha(13MP)
Berbatov(31MP)

160.5MP for the strongest XI, and 86MP on the bench(which I shortened since the rest are minuscule fees or academy). That's 246.5 total, not counting sales.

Compared to:

GK: Reina(6MP)
RB: Arbeloa(2MP)
CB: Carragher(academy)
CB: Agger(5MP)
LB: Aurelio(free)
DM: Mascherano(18MP)
CM: Alonso(10MP)
RW: Kuyt(10MP)
CAM: Gerrard(academy)
LW: Benayoun(5MP)
ST: Torres(20MP)

Bench:
Babel(14MP)
Lucas(6MP)
Skrtel(5MP)
Spearing(academy)
Insua(1.5MP)
Dossena(6MP)
Hyppia(2.6MP)
Keane(let's call him 5MP since he was here for half a year and that's what we lost)
Riera(8MP)
N'gog(1.5MP)

So we have 76MP for the XI, and 49.6 on the bench. that's 125.6 spent(not counting sales except for Keane since it's a short time period he was here.)

Do you want me to get the wage bill chart up, or can you see the picture?