Man stabbed, then decapitated on grey hound bus

[fredr123]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...d.html?ref=rss

Greyhound pulls "bus rage" ad.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

At the risk of derailing the thread, where did you hear this? There's never been any link between chemotherapy and schizophrenia. If you must point the finger somewhere, blame your genes, not "the system".

Her psychiatric doctors were the source of this information, and it wasn't her chemo that caused her schizophrenia, it was an experimental treatment they administered to her during the 1970s. It wasn't an optional treatment ... if her parents refused the treatment they were told social services would assume custody of their child.

As for blaming genetics, I can only think of three people in the family tree who have had cancer, out of about 500. Two of the three were in their 70s and were smokers and alcoholics. The third is the person discussed above. Our clan as a whole had been remarkably fortunate in that regard. There are other health issues in our genes, but cancer isn't one of them.

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by fredr123

What's the point? I bet 99% of the population would react similarly. When the chips are down, it's not women and children first; it's me first and get the f out of my way.

I've been in a few emergency situations in my life none of which approach anything nearly as horrific as what ocurred on that bus. In those cases, I think I reacted pretty well. I like to think I'm cool under pressure. At the same time I am almost 100% sure I would have been among those on that bus rushing for the exit. I can think of maybe two people (my wife and kid) that I would willingly do anything, including facing imminent peril and certain death, in order to protect (even then, consider my mother in law above). The rest of you are hosed. It's not cowardice, it's just an honest human reaction.

Regarding fight or flight response.

Just a little while ago I saw some study that had examined how people had responded during ferry (passenger boat) sinkings/emergencies and I believe (trying to remember exact numbers but the point is the same) they had concluded that ~80% panic and run/jump away from where the masses think there is danger towards where the masses think there is safety, 12% freeze and go into shock and 8% remain relatively logical and try to help the masses and/or themselves and/or address the original problem.

This was not said in what i read, but i imagine that mere 8% that remain logical likely have training/experience with the particular problem and that given a type of problem equally as dangerous but of a different nature they too would be panicing (and some of those prior 80% would then be clear thinking and replace them in the 8% group).

So yeah, seems to me about 1%-2% are able to think clearly in emergencies like this without training and another 6%-7% with training.

On a bus in the middle of no where I am not surprised people just got themselves out of immediate danger.




Claeren.

[automaton 3]

^^^On the same note, post WWII studies demonstrated that only a small percentage of soliders were actively engaging the enemy and firing their rifles - many just stayed put or hid in their foxholes.

Training introduces an element of CS-CR, ie see silhouette, pull trigger, sillhouette disappears. This is a way of ensuring that a greater number of troops fired their weapons at the enemy. The downside is naturally PTSD and the like, as troops shoot first and think about things later.

Humans (and most animals) are hard-wired to run from danger, and fight only when absolutely necessary (ie cornered) as this is generally the best survival reaction.

EDIT: Hmm, it turns out that the WWII firing rates are actually fairly contentious and were mainly based on observations. The actual firing rates may have been higher.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Claeren

Regarding fight or flight response.

Just a little while ago I saw some study that had examined how people had responded during ferry (passenger boat) sinkings/emergencies and I believe (trying to remember exact numbers but the point is the same) they had concluded that ~80% panic and run/jump away from where the masses think there is danger towards where the masses think there is safety, 12% freeze and go into shock and 8% remain relatively logical and try to help the masses and/or themselves and/or address the original problem.

This was not said in what i read, but i imagine that mere 8% that remain logical likely have training/experience with the particular problem and that given a type of problem equally as dangerous but of a different nature they too would be panicing (and some of those prior 80% would then be clear thinking and replace them in the 8% group).

So yeah, seems to me about 1%-2% are able to think clearly in emergencies like this without training and another 6%-7% with training.

On a bus in the middle of no where I am not surprised people just got themselves out of immediate danger.




Claeren.

wouldn't getting away from the knife wielding psycho already in the process of beheading some guy and then stopping him from getting to everyone else by trapping him on the bus be the logical thing to do? I dunno - everyone has a different view of what the 'logical' solution is but to me, preventing anyone else from being killed would be my first priority.

[Flames89]

Wow ... so Li was eating the guy, and then tried to escape with some parts on him...

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...9-c57494126964

[Phaneuf3]

wow. every time i read about this it gets more and more disturbing. this guy is 12 different types of crazy. he needs to be put away for a long, long, LONG time.

[J pold]

I can’t imagine what his family must be going through, the details of this case just get more and more horrific

[Locke]

This guy is setting the bar for crazy.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

wow. every time i read about this it gets more and more disturbing. this guy is 12 different types of crazy. he needs to be put away for a long, long, LONG time.

I read your link and was eating a sandwhich at the time. Upchucked a few minutes later. Very disturbing and leads more to what some are suggesting that he's a paranoid schizophrenic. Pretty sure his psychiatric evaluation will show this.

The disturbing part was hearing the Court was told that Li's common-law wife claims the man spent four days in a psychiatric ward in Alberta. If true you have to wonder why they guy was released. Was it a case of a bed shortage and that space was neded for another patient with more pressing needs. Then again it could be his condition was stabalized with meds and the fact he was not taking them while on the bus.

[FlamesAddiction]

I almost hope it isn't labelled as schizophrenia as it will only increase discrimination against people who suffer from schizophrenia. Not all schizophrenics are likely to commit harm against people - in fact most aren't.

[Shnabdabber]

Originally Posted by OilersBaby

I couldn't have said it better myself. My husband is always prosecuting criminals where the defense attorney argues the "insanity defense"...in some cases it is true. However, in cases like this...his insanity is going to cause soo many innocent victims their lives. No "help" is going to cure him. He deserves the death penalty no doubt about it.

I never understood the whole "oh you cant charge me for murder/rape/whatever cuz Im crrrrrrrazy!!!" ploy.

You murder someone, hell yes you're crazy. Lock em up, throw away the key.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I almost hope it isn't labelled as schizophrenia as it will only increase discrimination against people who suffer from schizophrenia. Not all schizophrenics are likely to commit harm against people - in fact most aren't.

Gut feeling but I'm betting on personality disorder.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by fotze

That sounds mighty schizophrenic like talk, you just might be a schizo or at the very least pro-schizo, I say we hangs ya just to be safe.

Lol.

I'm not, but I do have one friend who is. It's pretty mild though and personally, I think it's more like social anxiety disorder. But he is labelled as "schizophrenic". I have never seen him act violently, although he was convinced before that a women he didn't know was in love with him. That was actually what brought his condition to the attention of his family and how he got treated. Sometimes he will do strange things though, like mutter non-sensical phrases. One time he thought that the store front windows downtown were arranged in ways that were giving him messages, but they weren't dangerous messages. They were things like "to call his mother" or to go to the park. Probably the funniest thing he did was he stayed all night at a Robin's Donuts store because some stranger bought him a coffee. He had it in his head that if he left and the stranger saw that he drove a nice car, he'd get angry that he paid for his coffee he might want to fight.

Mental illnesses tend to vary. The general labels don't really say much about the symptoms specific individuals might have. Two people who are "schizophrenic" might act totally different while having episodes.

I would be really interested to know out of all the violent crimes that occur within a year, how many are done by people with mental illnesses, and how many are done by people who are supposedly "sane". Are mentally ill people really more dangerous?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I almost hope it isn't labelled as schizophrenia as it will only increase discrimination against people who suffer from schizophrenia. Not all schizophrenics are likely to commit harm against people - in fact most aren't.

Not only that but paranoia also.

Most like you say stay on thier meds and can lead productive lives.

[cal_guy]

There's a big misconception of the use of the insanity defense (mental disorder defence in Canada). It's not the get out of jail card that people think it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder_defence

[Bill Bumface]

I feel odd saying this...

But am I the only one that actually feels bad for the killer? If in fact he is paranoid schizophrenic and thought that he had to kill this kid for whatever nut job reason his mind fabricated, and then the episode ends and he realizes what he did and wants to die because he can't live with himself... that's tough.

I'm likely going to get piled on by people saying "Are you kidding me, he ended an innocent life, blah blah blah" but none of us know how powerful those voices in his head were, or for what reason he thought he had to kill the kid. It's just really sad all around.

[Bill Bumface]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

Another odd twist:

Around 9 p.m., he walked into the M and M store, where David Dauphinais's husband Darren was working alone.
Mr. Li hung around for what felt like ages, making Darren extremely uncomfortable. He called his husband, saying he was afraid to walk home.

[kermitology]

^^ I understand what you're saying hulk.. If indeed it is a case of a mental episode, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest that he now feels that way.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

I feel odd saying this...

But am I the only one that actually feels bad for the killer? If in fact he is paranoid schizophrenic and thought that he had to kill this kid for whatever nut job reason his mind fabricated, and then the episode ends and he realizes what he did and wants to die because he can't live with himself... that's tough.

I'm likely going to get piled on by people saying "Are you kidding me, he ended an innocent life, blah blah blah" but none of us know how powerful those voices in his head were, or for what reason he thought he had to kill the kid. It's just really sad all around.

Naw, I can see that too. If that's the case.

Doesn't change how you feel for the victim. I'm doubting you get piled on too bad.