I knew it was going to be a long shot for the finish last and I still think that is the case. We have won once in 7 games and still far from "leading" the way. A 2 game win streak would catapult us out of the top ten.
There are some teams that are trying to finish last. I don’t think the Flames are actually trying to do it even though the results point to it.
That’s why I think finishing dead last will be tough
This year, there aren't that many teams actually trying to tank.
The Sharks are still in tank mode? and possibly Nashville? The rest of the teams that were in tank mode seem to be trying to pull themselves up. We might have some accidental contenders like the Rangers. If Pittsburg trades Crosby they are in tank mode fast.
It's certainly a better year than most to aim for that last spot! We're going down! We're gonna get creamed!
Yes, the Flames traded away a huge chunk of its veteran core. But all but one was on an expiring contract and the Flames attempted to retain at least some of them. The one player not on an expiring contract was traded because the crease was too full.
Yes, the Flames have maintained a big chunk of cap. But we know Conroy has attempted to take big swings (his words) and was unable to connect.
The Flames continue to refuse to acknowledge a rebuild. Not just to us. But also to the players, the insiders, other teams, etc. We have never heard insiders tell us the Flames are "open for business" or actively rebuilding.
Instead we hear they aren't taking calls on key veterans. We hear the Flames are targeting 97 points and think they have the roster to do it.
Outside of his first season dealing with expiring contracts Conroy has done very little. He has one trade in nearly 16 months. And as I said above, a lot of the evidence that the Flames are in a rebuild only exists because Conroy wasn't able to retain free agents or connect on big deals.
First, I recommend that you simply take a step back, and look at the moves made. If this isn't practically a tear-down rebuild, I don't know what is. If you are in doubt, take a look at other organizations that have undergone tear down rebuilds. Tell me how many vets were traded out. I think if you were to look around at other rebuilds, it would skew your opinion of what Conroy is doing.
As for 'announcing the rebuild' - when should he have announced it? So the Flames under Feaster announced it. There wasn't any issue there. They had just traded out the Captain and face of the franchise (as well as Bouwmeester) to kickstart that rebuild. Now take a look at how many more vets have been traded out as compared to that team, for reference. So why didn't Conroy simply announce the rebuild?
Should he have announced the rebuild when players were asking for trades publicly? Zadorov and Toffoli both did. Gaudreau had left the season before as a UFA. Tkachuk demanded out. Players were demanding exorbitant sums to re-sign. Conroy traded them all out. The amount of vets for futures was unprecedented, and yet many on this board thought "Flames are competing" simply because a rebuild was not announced.
There was no good time. The Calgary Flames name was being dragged through the mud. Conroy couldn't go public and say: "We are rebuilding because nobody wants to play in Calgary." Then the next season, this team exceeds expectations - at the deadline, he doesn't add anyone. He could have traded some bodies out, but that would have caused animosity with the vets, and once again, risked having a 'nobody wants to play in Calgary." embarrassing scenario.
Unfortunately, a small market team like Calgary has to pay attention to its image - every team does, but it is even more important for a team like Calgary. Conroy has been going out of his way to show players and the league in general that Calgary is a 1st rate organization. He has asked Backlund to let him know how the Flames can do more - better lunches, more support, etc.. He went out of his way to pick up Frost and Farabee, which many players around the league noticed.
If you listen all along to what he has been saying, he is basically saying that the Flames are rebuilding without saying it. He has on many occasions said; "This will take some time", "The bulk of this team will be built through the draft", and only prioritizing young players. Not signing UFA vets. Not trading any futures for win-now players.
The Flames are 100% in a rebuild, not a retool. A retool last a season. Gadreau and Tkachuck out, Weegar and Huberdeau in = retool. Lindholm, Zadorov, Tanev, Toffoli, Mangiapane, Markstrom, and Hanifin all for futures - that's a rebuild, and as close to a complete tear-down, scorched earth, burn it to the ground as you can get in one season. I don't can't find a team that has traded-out more vets for futures within just over a season than Calgary has.
All that is missing is the announcement. If it comes, it will come this season at the trade deadline or in the off-season. However, Conroy is probably just loving the fact that even fans here in Calgary are bickering over what is really happening. Maybe he never announces it.
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This year, there aren't that many teams actually trying to tank.
The Sharks are still in tank mode? and possibly Nashville? The rest of the teams that were in tank mode seem to be trying to pull themselves up. We might have some accidental contenders like the Rangers. If Pittsburg trades Crosby they are in tank mode fast.
It's certainly a better year than most to aim for that last spot! We're going down! We're gonna get creamed!
I don't think Nashville is in tank mode when they have guys like Stamkos.
And I don't think the Sharks are in tank more, they want to be pulling out of it now.
I don't think Nashville is in tank mode when they have guys like Stamkos.
And I don't think the Sharks are in tank more, they want to be pulling out of it now.
You're probably right. I was trying to think of examples of purposely tanking teams, and I don't actually think there are any.
All of the formerly tanking teams like Detroit and Chicago are also trying to be better. Even Anaheim is trying to surround their young players with vets now. Philly is shuffling players around trying to get better.
I don't think there are any teams in tank mode. Every team at the bottom of the standings last season was already trying to improve (if you look at the vets that they were signing). Calgary is the only team that got worse on paper (arguable how much in the off-season, but definitely after Andersson leaves for futures).
Pittsburgh certainly may join - they are one player away from entering a rebuild, but as of this post, they sit at a surprising 8th overall in the standings.
The 'competition' for last place is easier this year - it should take less points. At the very least, the last 3 spots should have a much higher combined point total than last season. This is a fantastic year to bottom-out given the competition + draft talent next year.
You're probably right. I was trying to think of examples of purposely tanking teams, and I don't actually think there are any.
All of the formerly tanking teams like Detroit and Chicago are also trying to be better. Even Anaheim is trying to surround their young players with vets now. Philly is shuffling players around trying to get better.
That is probably because nobody purposely loses. Some teams (the Flames being the best example as they have gone full rebuild the most) will trade current players for futures with an expected outcome of being worse but nobody is actually bad on purpose.
First, I recommend that you simply take a step back, and look at the moves made. If this isn't practically a tear-down rebuild, I don't know what is. If you are in doubt, take a look at other organizations that have undergone tear down rebuilds. Tell me how many vets were traded out. I think if you were to look around at other rebuilds, it would skew your opinion of what Conroy is doing.
As for 'announcing the rebuild' - when should he have announced it? So the Flames under Feaster announced it. There wasn't any issue there. They had just traded out the Captain and face of the franchise (as well as Bouwmeester) to kickstart that rebuild. Now take a look at how many more vets have been traded out as compared to that team, for reference. So why didn't Conroy simply announce the rebuild?
Should he have announced the rebuild when players were asking for trades publicly? Zadorov and Toffoli both did. Gaudreau had left the season before as a UFA. Tkachuk demanded out. Players were demanding exorbitant sums to re-sign. Conroy traded them all out. The amount of vets for futures was unprecedented, and yet many on this board thought "Flames are competing" simply because a rebuild was not announced.
There was no good time. The Calgary Flames name was being dragged through the mud. Conroy couldn't go public and say: "We are rebuilding because nobody wants to play in Calgary." Then the next season, this team exceeds expectations - at the deadline, he doesn't add anyone. He could have traded some bodies out, but that would have caused animosity with the vets, and once again, risked having a 'nobody wants to play in Calgary." embarrassing scenario.
Unfortunately, a small market team like Calgary has to pay attention to its image - every team does, but it is even more important for a team like Calgary. Conroy has been going out of his way to show players and the league in general that Calgary is a 1st rate organization. He has asked Backlund to let him know how the Flames can do more - better lunches, more support, etc.. He went out of his way to pick up Frost and Farabee, which many players around the league noticed.
If you listen all along to what he has been saying, he is basically saying that the Flames are rebuilding without saying it. He has on many occasions said; "This will take some time", "The bulk of this team will be built through the draft", and only prioritizing young players. Not signing UFA vets. Not trading any futures for win-now players.
The Flames are 100% in a rebuild, not a retool. A retool last a season. Gadreau and Tkachuck out, Weegar and Huberdeau in = retool. Lindholm, Zadorov, Tanev, Toffoli, Mangiapane, Markstrom, and Hanifin all for futures - that's a rebuild, and as close to a complete tear-down, scorched earth, burn it to the ground as you can get in one season. I don't can't find a team that has traded-out more vets for futures within just over a season than Calgary has.
All that is missing is the announcement. If it comes, it will come this season at the trade deadline or in the off-season. However, Conroy is probably just loving the fact that even fans here in Calgary are bickering over what is really happening. Maybe he never announces it.
To add to this, the Flames also stopped spending money. They went from being a cap team to being near the very bottom of teams by cap spent. If it was retool, the team would keep trying to be competitive and spend money.
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You're probably right. I was trying to think of examples of purposely tanking teams, and I don't actually think there are any.
All of the formerly tanking teams like Detroit and Chicago are also trying to be better. Even Anaheim is trying to surround their young players with vets now. Philly is shuffling players around trying to get better.
Friedman has said the only team in the league not trying to actively improve right now is Pittsburgh.
But I think you could say the same about Calgary.
Everyone else is trying to improve to some degree.
It's early but there are a few teams near the bottom that are intriguing
- LA: Are they already looking at a failed re-build and if so what now.
- Tampa: Is this the beginning of the end for that core?
- Ottawa: They have to continue to take steps this year.
- Buffalo: well yeah
- CBJ: Another team that could go either way. Do they take steps or step back?
I think Anaheim, Utah, and clearly Detroit are showing signs of coming out of their re-builds.
Friedman has said the only team in the league not trying to actively improve right now is Pittsburgh.
But I think you could say the same about Calgary.
Everyone else is trying to improve to some degree.
It's early but there are a few teams near the bottom that are intriguing
- LA: Are they already looking at a failed re-build and if so what now.
- Tampa: Is this the beginning of the end for that core?
- Ottawa: They have to continue to take steps this year.
- Buffalo: well yeah
- CBJ: Another team that could go either way. Do they take steps or step back?
I think Anaheim, Utah, and clearly Detroit are showing signs of coming out of their re-builds.
Columbus, Buffalo and Ottawa have almost perfected the rebuild, in the sense that they are always doing it. They will continue (well not Ottawa because they have to give up their first round pick this year) to accumulate high picks but it seems likely they will be lottery teams for a long time. Once you get in that space you can generally stay there for at least 8 years but some teams become so good at losing that they can get top picks for a generation.
Columbus, Buffalo and Ottawa have almost perfected the rebuild, in the sense that they are always doing it. They will continue (well not Ottawa because they have to give up their first round pick this year) to accumulate high picks but it seems likely they will be lottery teams for a long time. Once you get in that space you can generally stay there for at least 8 years but some teams become so good at losing that they can get top picks for a generation.
Ottawa just didn't draft well enough.
11: Logan Brown
28: Shane Bowers
26: Jacob Bernard Docker
19: Lassi Thomson
10: Tyler Boucher (just an AWFUL pick)
And then in 2022 and 2023 they didn't have a 1st. 2022 went to Chicago for DeBrincat. I can't remember where the '23 1st went and for what.
They had a fantastic 2020 draft that should have set them up by drafting Stutzle and Sanderson. But they didn't do well enough in the other drafts.
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Ottawa just didn't draft well enough.
11: Logan Brown
28: Shane Bowers
26: Jacob Bernard Docker
19: Lassi Thomson
10: Tyler Boucher (just an AWFUL pick)
And then in 2022 and 2023 they didn't have a 1st. 2022 went to Chicago for DeBrincat. I can't remember where the '23 1st went and for what.
They had a fantastic 2020 draft that should have set them up by drafting Stutzle and Sanderson. But they didn't do well enough in the other drafts.
They traded it for Chychrun (2023 pick). Doubt Daniel But or Kevin Korchinski help them much though. Flames accumulating draft picks makes sense because they traditionally draft well but it is definitely a volume game. An individual player (like McDavid) that just makes your team competitive on his own comes around about once every 15 years or so.
It also makes sense how Conroy is trying to spread out the birth year and the players and prospects he is getting back. He has or will have a good balance of prospects born between 2004 - 2008/2009. Trading everyone at once, suck and then win seems like more of an EA Sports strategy than one that actually works in the real world.
Last edited by Aarongavey; 10-21-2025 at 10:07 AM.
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The Sharks added Jeff Skinner, Dmitry Orlov, John Klingberg, Nick Leddy, and Alex Nedeljkovic. If the Flames did all that people would be incessantly complaining about the Flames always aiming for the "mushy middle"
You know, more than they already do.
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If you look at a team like Chicago, they already had guys like Bolland, Byfuglien, Brouwer, Keith, Seabrook and quite a few others before they dropped in Toews and Kane.
Lots of teams that successfully rebuild have a group of 2nd/3rd line guys already playing in the system that work well then add the final touches.
The Flames currently have a group of guys like that (Coronato, Gridin, Honzek etc) that look to be middle of the lineup guys when the Flames are good.
Just need to wait to get the stars they need to flesh out the roster.
Only way to reliably do that, is to not play good hockey. You can fluke out with a Fleury or Gaudreau every once in a while. You can't rely on that happening though.
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The Sharks added Jeff Skinner, Dmitry Orlov, John Klingberg, Nick Leddy, and Alex Nedeljkovic. If the Flames did all that people would be incessantly complaining about the Flames always aiming for the "mushy middle"
You know, more than they already do.
The Sharks are in a cycle of their draft pick being 3rd, 7th, 11th, 4th, 1st, 2nd. They didn't own their 3rd pick as that was with the Sens for the Karlsson trade but the last 3 years specifically they have picked at the top.
If the Flames went through a 6 year cycle like this and were not trying to get better this board would be losing their minds. Many of us can tolerate a year or two of this but I understand why some fear it could put us in a cycle where we are terrible for a decade +
