[PGT] Oilers 3 Flames 2 in OT

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I think the boys know it's over now.

My guess is we will see a drop off in play over the last few games and a lot of losses.

As long as they have 3/4 games in hand on the wildcard teams i doubt that.

If they drop the game vs Colorado in regulation then I could maybe see it.

I think we see a big effort there too. Not sure if it will be enough to overcome Mack and Makar though.

[SemicolonD]

Originally Posted by Locke

Hm.

I find myself in the unusual and uncomfortable position of skeptical optimism.

As an EPL fan, sometimes the run-in is the most interesting part of the season.

Realistically this team should never have even been in the playoff discussion, but they played over their heads and made some noise. And its been fun!

They aren't mathematically eliminated so, while she's backstage warming up, the fat lady has indeed, not yet sung. Now its about character and what kind the Flames have.

They have a choice here.

They can lay down and die. Thats the easy way but is that how you would want to go down? Or, they can fight like hell. And they may fight like hell and still miss the playoffs, I'd contend thats even the most likely outcome. But it will speak volumes as to the character of this group.

So...while the fat lady is doing her vocal exercises behind the curtain and likely terrorizing the craft services employees...lets fight like hell and GTFO of here to the playoffs before she starts her set.

There’s 0 chance anyone in that locker room has given up. That’s one thing you can count on for this version of the Flames and that we as fans should be proud of. They’re gna beat these bottom feeder teams coming up on the schedule and all it takes is somehow beating the Avs for us to be right back in it.

The Flames will find a way to work to the finish whether it be wild card spot or just outside it, it’s our damn motto at this point.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Their predicament is all Huska/Conroy's faults for sending Kerins down!

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

2 things, in a trade I see him getting a second round pick which itself isn’t overly valuable.

I remember reading on deadline day that guys like Vladar were only getting offers for a 3rd or 4th round pick. I can't remember if that was here, on Twitter, or both.

If the Flames were 10 points out at the deadline I would agree to just get something for pending UFAs but they weren't.

[nieuwy-89]

I don’t blame Conroy for standing pat at the deadline. He was right for rewarding the players for a surprisingly good season and giving them a shot without upsetting the chemistry in the locker room. I believe we were in a playoff spot at the deadline so selling didn’t make sense.

What has hurt is the Blues and Canucks both turning their seasons around, and the Flames pissing away points in games that they led in the third period.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

You understand they play that way because we lack talent and no they don’t change the system halfway through the game.

We don’t have the speed or talent to play a pressure game. Our defence is patched together with waiver wire pickups.

The Flames aren’t losing because of coaching. They are losing because we don’t have a Draisatil on our team.

You really think defensive zone pressure is an elite skill? You think our team is two slow to pressure players in the defensive zone? Standing up at the blue line instead of always backing way in?

They absolutely slow their forecheck when they get a lead, and turn it up when they are chasing. Not super unusual, but their forecheck is pretty pedestrian to begin with and they convert to a full blown trap and defend only system when up by one goal.

Falling back on them not having the skill for basic systems play is tired. Look at what Sutter got out of many under skilled teams. If anything playing uptempo pressure can be part of the equalizer when there is a skill mismatch...giving skilled teams lots of time to make plays is the opposite of what the Flames should be doing.

And the results are exactly what Huska has had in every year as a pro coach: a winning percentage under .500.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Was a bit disappointed with Frost on the second goal against.

He’s a really interesting player to me. He has puck handling and carrying skills the Flames need, and he’s deceptively good on the boards. But I think he needs a chat from Backlund and an offseason where he works on his fitness. Maybe it’s just confirmation bias but near the end of regular shifts, he always looks just utterly gassed. Hunched over, stride all gone, just empty. If he could squeeze out an extra 5-10 seconds of higher performance from his shifts he’d be excellent.

Yup, I thought he was mostly to blame for that goal. However, for the preceding 3 or 4 minutes, the entire team was guilty of not getting the puck deep into the Oilers' zone; Frost was the final straw.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

I don’t blame Conroy for standing pat at the deadline. He was right for rewarding the players for a surprisingly good season and giving them a shot without upsetting the chemistry in the locker room. I believe we were in a playoff spot at the deadline so selling didn’t make sense.

What has hurt is the Blues and Canucks both turning their seasons around, and the Flames pissing away points in games that they led in the third period.

Yeah. I'd pretty much agree with all of that.

Conroy decided to reward an over-achieving group, save assets and bounce on the Devil and see where he lands.

I got no issue with that.

I didnt see the Blues and Canucks just magically flipping a switch and learning how to hockey.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again how do you explain their strong record in one goal games?
Seems like whatever they do works in close games

Because 1 goal games are a useless stat that don't actually show a coach is gooid? Losing by 1 goal vs having an empty net goal with 5 seconds left and losing by 2 goals is significant? Or winning a game by 1 goal vs scoring an empty net goal with 5 seconds left means something?

How about the Flames have won 34 of 72 games? And if you go back over all of Huska's seasons as a oro head coach the best he has ever done is one season with a .500 winning percentage.

This pass this guy gets because there were low expectations is astounding. If not for Wolf this team is bottom 5 and not a single person here thinks Huska is a good coach. But queue an amazing roiling season for a goalie and all of a sudden the coach is a genius despite about as mediocre of a resume as you could get.

[Groot]

I'd make a strong wager that Andersson is moved at the draft or around that time. Many more suitors than trade deadline as GM's reshape their teams and teams will have more cap to work with. 1-year of Andersson at $2.25M AAV is still very attractive to a lot of teams.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Because 1 goal games are a useless stat that don't actually show a coach is gooid? Losing by 1 goal vs having an empty net goal with 5 seconds left and losing by 2 goals is significant? Or winning a game by 1 goal vs scoring an empty net goal with 5 seconds left means something?

How about the Flames have won 34 of 72 games? And if you go back over all of Huska's seasons as a oro head coach the best he has ever done is one season with a .500 winning percentage.

This pass this guy gets because there were low expectations is astounding. If not for Wolf this team is bottom 5 and not a single person here thinks Huska is a good coach. But queue an amazing roiling season for a goalie and all of a sudden the coach is a genius despite about as mediocre of a resume as you could get.

So stats that don't support your pre-determined view are useless right?
That's what this comes down to. You have zero interest in any information that suggests anything other than your strongly held view.

Moreover what single poster has said he's a genius? Who are you talking about?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

You really think defensive zone pressure is an elite skill? You think our team is two slow to pressure players in the defensive zone? Standing up at the blue line instead of always backing way in?

They absolutely slow their forecheck when they get a lead, and turn it up when they are chasing. Not super unusual, but their forecheck is pretty pedestrian to begin with and they convert to a full blown trap and defend only system when up by one goal.

Falling back on them not having the skill for basic systems play is tired. Look at what Sutter got out of many under skilled teams. If anything playing uptempo pressure can be part of the equalizer when there is a skill mismatch...giving skilled teams lots of time to make plays is the opposite of what the Flames should be doing.

And the results are exactly what Huska has had in every year as a pro coach: a winning percentage under .500.

You want guys like Hanley, Pachal, Andersson, Miromanov to stand up at the blue line. They don’t have the foot speed to recover if they get beat.

They had the better of chances last night even with the lead but the lack of skill in the lineup prevented them from finishing chances.

Sutter was coaching the same low scoring type teams he just had the save %.

[dammage79]

Flames need more Frost type acquisitions to bring the team up. Hope Conny can do just that.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Flames need less 2nd and 3rd liners or they will continue the vicious cycle of being a mid team forever.

[PepsiFree]

If Wolf had the same save percentage as Vladar and you added all of those additional goals to games the Flames won and added none to the games the Flames lost (to favour the “without Wolf we’d be bottom 5” narrative as possible) then we’d be looking at a 4-8 point drop off from the current position, good for the 9th-14th worst record, in the Utah to Anaheim range.

The only way they could be worse is if you added the goal only to games they went to overtime, and added them only in regulation to avoid any overtime points at all, in which case the Flames would be bottom five.

So, basically, the narrative that without Wolf the Flames would be bottom five is totally unrealistic.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

So stats that don't support your pre-determined view are useless right?
That's what this comes down to. You have zero interest in any information that suggests anything other than your strongly held view.

Moreover what single poster has said he's a genius? Who are you talking about?

Literally what information? I've provided complaints with specifics around what parts of his system I don't think work. I've commented on how many high danger chances they give up in his system which is all about defense, on their xGF/xGA%, on Wolf's saves above expected propping up the team, on Huska's history and mediocrity as a professional head coach.

The defense of Huska is 100% rooted in people's expectations prior to the season starting, and not in the numbers about how they are playing and how they are winning or losing. People's defense is literally "they have to play that way because they have no skill". My point is without Wolf this team is bottom 5 and nobody is defending Huska as a good coach.

To your point about 1 goal games. I ask you what winning a 1 goal game tells you compared to winning by 2 goals when the second one an empty net goal with 15 seconds left? Same goes for losing by 1 goal vs 2 if the second is an empty net when time is almost out. You claim winning 1 goal games means Huska's system is good. Since you brought that up maybe explain why winning by 1 goal means something different than winning by two goals when you score a late empty net goal? Unless you can explain why it's useful to demonstrate Huksa is a good coach why should I explain why it's not...even though I gave you a pretty clear example of how that stat could be misleading.

Ans are you also including the 12 overtime/shootout losses in the negative side of one goal games?

Any challenge of Huska's coaching is met with multiple posters falling back on the Flames having no skill and that they are over-achieving because of him. I would say if you are one of the better people at a job done by only 30 people in the world it's not the craziest of hyperbole to call you a genius (do I need to look up the people lobbying for Jack Adams?). And it's definitely not as extreme as people saying the Flames have no skill.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Team tank
“Flames need to trade everyone and rebuild”

Flames trade Toffoli, Zadorov, Lindholm, Tanev, Hanifin, Markstrom, Mangiapane and Kuzmenko for picks and young players with potential and the team competes it’s butt off

Team tank
“Not like thaaaaaattt!!! You need to teach these young assets to lose also! That’s how you win”

I don't see the point in being deliberately obtuse. Literally no one is suggesting that the team should lose on purpose or "teach young players to lose".

The argument is more along the lines of the 2 goalies should have split the starts 50/50, instead of pushing our 23 year goalie into a situation where he had to carry an NHL team on his back. There are some signs that it may have been a mistake to put so much pressure on him so early. His last 6 games have all been sub-.900 save % games. He's showing signs of falling back down to Earth after what was an amazing stretch for a young goalie. But ultimately too much was expected of him too soon, and it would have been better to give him a more realistic burden for a 23 year old. In so doing, the team would have been better positioned to secure a top 10 pick in the draft. Instead, we're looking at 2 late first rounders. Could a special player be drafted by the Flames this year? Possible, but not likely.

And there were some arguing that Andersson should have been dealt at the deadline. Honestly, I have a hard time making a case that those people are wrong. Then again, we don't know what kind of return Conny could have got for him, so it's hard to say.

But hopefully you understand why it's annoying to be accused of wanting the team to lose or teach young players to lose. That's not the argument and never has been.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You keep saying without Wolf we are bottom 5 and no one would say Huska is a good coach.

The expectations prior to the season was a bottom 5 finish. So why would anyone say Huska isn’t a good coach unless up had unrealistic expectations for this team.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If Wolf had the same save percentage as Vladar and you added all of those additional goals to games the Flames won and added none to the games the Flames lost (to favour the “without Wolf we’d be bottom 5” narrative as possible) then we’d be looking at a 4-8 point drop off from the current position, good for the 9th-14th worst record, in the Utah to Anaheim range.

The only way they could be worse is if you added the goal only to games they went to overtime, and added them only in regulation to avoid any overtime points at all, in which case the Flames would be bottom five.

So, basically, the narrative that without Wolf the Flames would be bottom five is totally unrealistic.

If you take away Wolf's 12 goals saved above expected the Flames would have the 7th worst goal differential in the NHL. For a Tema that doesn't score lots of goals think 12 more goals against could have a pretty significant drop in where they finish.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's unlikely but not over.

The Blues are never going to lose again, so that's probably over.

But Wild just lost to the Devils at home, and now go play Devils, Rangers and Islanders on the road with all those teams in the middle of a playoff battle and then come back to play the Stars at home.

I don't think 3-5-0 is impossible for the Wild and that would put them at 93 points

Flames go 7-3-0 and it's 94 points.

Just beat the Avs and you go from there

For me it depends on that game.

Overcome a team you're outmatched against and I can believe a little.

With these two losses they have to win that one now.

I laid out their "map" to the playoffs in a previous post, but they need to go .500 or better against the playoff teams on their schedule and sweep the California teams.

Lose these 3 games against PO opponents and that means you have to sweep the 2 against Vegas and beat Minnesota (although that's probably a given).