Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

It's also true that life deals a lot of people a bad hand from birth, and their parents are not exactly beacons of wisdom and guidance. That's why I support consent education in high schools and universities (grade 6 and below would be too early).

Consent and the right to body autonomy is not just about sex, my guy.
By teaching body autonomy to you toddler etc you're raising the bar that traditionally has been so low.

[Locke]

And I know theres concepts like 'implied consent' which I dont think is a real thing. But there should also be concepts like rational thought.

For instance.

"Hey...do you think this perfectly normal non-porn-star girl we picked up at the bar wants to go at it with 5 dudes shes never met?"

Hmm....I'mma go out on a limb on this one and guess...'Probably Not.'

This is behaviour in which we definitely should not engage.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Consent and the right to body autonomy is not just about sex, my guy.
By teaching body autonomy to you toddler etc you're raising the bar that traditionally has been so low.

Completely agree. But I'm guessing that you, like me, were raised in a middle, middle-upper, or upper-class home with parents who knew what they were doing. Not everyone has that.

[shutout]

https://apnews.com/article/hockey-ca...53911bc05e0dbb

Five players from Canada’s 2018 world junior team have taken a leave of absence from their current clubs in recent days amid a report that five members of that team have been asked to surrender to police to face sexual assault charges.

NHL players Michael McLeod and Cal Foote of the New Jersey Devils, Carter Hart of the Philadelphia Flyers, Dillon Dube of the Calgary Flames and former NHL player Alex Formenton, who is now with a team in Europe, all have been granted indefinite leave, with the absences announced over the past four days.

[bzoo02]

Dube removed from flames roster on NHL site
https://www.nhl.com/flames/roster

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by Locke

And I know theres concepts like 'implied consent' which I dont think is a real thing. But there should also be concepts like rational thought.

For instance.

"Hey...do you think this perfectly normal non-porn-star girl we picked up at the bar wants to go at it with 5 dudes shes never met?"

Hmm....I'mma go out on a limb on this one and guess...'Probably Not.'

This is behaviour in which we definitely should not engage.

This is along the lines of what I was getting at. Unfortunately, these players' underdeveloped brains did not think like this. Or, they were so brazen as to think there would be no repercussions. I'd like to think 99 per cent of society do not treat sexual encounters this way.

[Yeah_Baby]

Implied consent can really complicated really quickly. Even not in an extreme case of SA.

I was on date with someone once where they were doing a lot of arm touching etc. So, while 9/10 I ask if I can touch someone in a situation like that, I didn't in this case. And they weren't okay with that and needless to say they were really upset about it etc.

I still kinda beat myself up about that when I think about it because ask you can probably assume I take this stuff really seriously.

TLDR implied consent doesn't cut it. You need the express presence of a yes.

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Completely agree. But I'm guessing that you, like me, were raised in a middle, middle-upper, or upper-class home with parents who knew what they were doing. Not everyone has that.

I'm definitely privileged in several vectors, but not sure my parents knew what they were doing with the myriad of reasons I'm in therapy lmao.

[EN FUEGO]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

It's a complete double standard. The whole victim blaming crowd.......

It's shocking how common this appears in today's society. I actually watched American Nightmare on Netflix last night. In this case multiple women were raped, kidnapped, and/or abused, and they were blamed and persecuted by those in law enforcement and the media. They were told the allegations in their cases were either hoaxes or a dream. I can't imagine living through something like that.

Are you sure the women in that documentary's parents shouldn't have just drilled them on the inherent risks of not owning a vicious attack dog?

When reprehensible attacks occur, all of the focus should be on consequences for the perpetrator(s), and victims should be given as much privacy and space to heal as can be afforded. How drunk they may have been and what risks they may have taken should not factor into the degree of the assault that happened to them. (As some are struggling to get their heads around)

[Pekkerhead]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Bro. Stop.

The world we want to live in is where men are taught not to be sexual predators, not where women are taught how to avoid them.

Blaming women for not taking appropriate precautions -- like, apparently, being in a bar at all -- perpetuates sexual predation. I can't stress it enough that you need to understand that what you are doing is quintessential victim blaming.

Well said.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I'm definitely privileged in several vectors, but not sure my parents knew what they were doing with the myriad of reasons I'm in therapy lmao.

I'm not having a good time with my assumptions here, so I'll stop, I promise.

[curves2000]

Lots and lots of speculation everywhere but we may get to the point where things won't go the way a lot of people like. A lot of people are looking at the book being thrown at the players and that may happen, but only if the evidence shows this to be way worse then initially thought.

Perhaps we may also find out that this is a weak case and that the initial 2018 police decision to not file charges may have been the right one too.

A lot of times these cases have very strong and or weak evidence on both sides. We may get some plea deals, some may testify against each other and more.

Regardless, we will know more soon and looking back, a lot of people may need to answer for their actions across the board. Players, victims, police, Hockey Canada, NHL and more.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I'm not having a good time with my assumptions here, so I'll stop, I promise.

They, like most (all?) parents, did they best job they knew how to do.

[3rd liner]

This whole situation makes me feel sick to my stomach. I had heard about it, but the details are just really sinking in as I read them this morning. Time to have a talk with my two kids that are in hockey.....

[Pekkerhead]

So if Dube is charged (not saying he will be), will his contract be voided?

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Pekkerhead

So if Dube is charged (not saying he will be), will his contract be voided?

I imagine nothing can happen unless he’s found guilty.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by bzoo02

Dube removed from flames roster on NHL site
https://www.nhl.com/flames/roster

Is it possible he hasn't been listed since his leave was announced?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by codynw

I imagine nothing can happen unless he’s found guilty.

If the Sharks can terminate Kane's contract, the Flames can absolutely do the same for Dube.

[bzoo02]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Is it possible he hasn't been listed since his leave was announced?

Totally possible, just thought it was interesting. I'm not sure if it means anything, but also worth noting that Kylington IS listed.

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Huh? What am I missing here? I’m saying the woman is not at fault here as the guys let themselves in. The bauer situation was different where she lied and he was acquitted. Totally a wrong take here Kal.

You always have to be aware of your surroundings and try and not put yourself in a bad situation.

You said that. It's victim blaming.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If the Sharks can terminate Kane's contract, the Flames can absolutely do the same for Dube.

Different country, different legal system. Likely you're right, but I would be very shy about saying ‘absolutely’.