[PGT] Flames lose 2-1 to Toronto

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Huderdeau is all hat no cattle.

A few tools no tool box.

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

No offense but you are a big Sutter fan. I wouldn't expect you post anything different. It's been a bad season from him. The Flames had one of their best starts to a season in years at 5-1 and his response was to go all grumpy pants, call out Huberdeau and change all the lines and they go out and lose the next seven games. I can't remember any head coach getting in his own way and faceplanting that bad with poor decision making. I don't know if this team ever really got its footing back after that.

The Sutter heat just doesn’t make sense to me. Comments saying that the game has passed him by and he’s no longer relevant in the NHL lacks merit in my opinion. Nobody was saying that last year when he coached the team to first in the division. His style seemed to work well enough that he won coach of the year.

He’s had his warts this year but let’s not pretend a different coach would have gotten better results with this group and especially the goaltending. When you lose the microscope and lens focuses in on every detail of the game. Playing the wrong goalie, playing the 4th line too much etc. Yet last year his decisions seemed to be just fine.

All coaches have their “guys” and it would be no different with anyone else. Fans would call out their decisions as well if we were losing. The coach can only do so much and the team is not very good. I mean do we really think Ward, Gulutzan or Peter’s would have different results?

At the end of the day the team is just flat out bad. Can’t use the coach as a scapegoat every time we fail. However it seems like a Flames thing to do unfortunately.

[Manhattanboy]

Agree with the above, but at the same time pretty easy to spot the turning point of the season - Marsktrom gives up the late gaffe goal to McDavid and Sutter with the ####ty presser after.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Pretty well established that he got hurt coming out of his net against the Canucks on the 17th isn't it?

There are no rules ... I'm not telling you what you have to count.

Personally I'd go to the last game before he got hurt when establishing how a player played before an injury. But if you want to include a game and a half with a concussion your call!

I am indifferent. He was an average goalie before we signed him and in my opinion over the full course of his work he has been average here. Not a difference maker but usually until this season not the reason you lose. We can say he was great until an injury, but injuries do happen in the NHL, not everyone comes back from them and sucks and then are average.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

You have to have establish credible threats elsewhere on the PP in order to make the bumper guy dangerous, otherwise there’s always going to be a guy or a stick in the way.

Lindholm last year was pretty dangerous on the PP regardless if he was on the flank or in the slot. Gaudreau would either find him open with a cross seam pass or Tkachuk would one touch it to him in the slot.

But I don’t think this team has the personnel to make it happen. Why is the Oiler’s PP so good? Because of McDavid and Draisaitl. They just traded away their PP1 quarterback and their PP didn’t skip a beat. The Flames do not have these types of players who can create the same kind of deception, or draw defenders to one side, or make the quick decisions needed to force the opposition out of their structure.

This is silly. Last season the Florida Panthers had the number 5 powerplay at 24.4% and Huberdeau was their leading scorer with 38PP points. The Oilers were 3rd at 26%, McDavid had 44 and Draisaitl had 41. The Flames do have an elite powerplay player, they just aren't getting production out of him.

Huberdeau has been a disappointment, but I just don't think it is accurate to put it all on the player.

[Enoch Root]

The PP, as it is set up, doesn't utilize Huberdeau, or any of the players, well. It isn't a lack of players, it is a terrible PP

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The PP, as it is set up, doesn't utilize Huberdeau, or any of the players, well. It isn't a lack of players, it is a terrible PP

Agreed.

You've got a trigger man in Lindholm - but tell me this - when was the last time you saw him get set up for a quick shot/one-timer?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Agreed.

You've got a trigger man in Lindholm - but tell me this - when was the last time you saw him get set up for a quick shot/one-timer?

It's because they're too busy passing it back to Andersson so he can not shoot it, and pass to the side boards.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Agreed.

You've got a trigger man in Lindholm - but tell me this - when was the last time you saw him get set up for a quick shot/one-timer?

Lindholm usually sets up in front of the net it seems, Kadri and Toffoli are the triggermen.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

It's because they're too busy passing it back to Andersson so he can not shoot it, and pass to the side boards.

Even more maddening than that is that they have Huberdeau also taking static shots from the left point, or Kadri bobbling the puck endlessly and taking 45 seconds to take a piss poor wrist shot from the sideboards into shin pads.

Kadri -> go to the front of the net.
Lindholm -> get on-top of one of the circles
Huberdeau -> sideboards/point as the distributer
Andersson -> quite frankly shouldn't be on the PP, he doesn't shoot well enough to be a real threat from the point
Toffoli -> actually positioned correctly, but because of where everyone else is it doesn't work. He's the only actual shooting threat so that also makes him easier to shut down.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Lindholm usually sets up in front of the net it seems, Kadri and Toffoli are the triggermen.

They'd be better served moving Kadri to PP 2 and moving Pelletier up. Fair compromise. Get pelts in front cleaning up the garbage and have Toff and Lindy as the trigger options. Lindy scored a TON in the RW circle on the PP. At least he did with Johnny. No reason that can't happen with this group of players

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Agreed.

You've got a trigger man in Lindholm - but tell me this - when was the last time you saw him get set up for a quick shot/one-timer?

About once every 10 games or so.

I think he has scored a total of 1 goal this year on that play

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

We can say he was great until an injury, but injuries do happen in the NHL, not everyone comes back from them and sucks and then are average.

Not everyone doesn't either. And not everyone has to deal with coming back from an injury in a season like the Covid year.

If that's a full 82 game season or if the team wins more with Rittich maybe they don't bring him back right away and he's better when he does.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

This is silly. Last season the Florida Panthers had the number 5 powerplay at 24.4% and Huberdeau was their leading scorer with 38PP points. The Oilers were 3rd at 26%, McDavid had 44 and Draisaitl had 41. The Flames do have an elite powerplay player, they just aren't getting production out of him.

Huberdeau has been a disappointment, but I just don't think it is accurate to put it all on the player.

First of all, I never singled out any one player. All 10+ guys on both PP units bear responsibility for the lack of execution.

Secondly, I am aware of Huberdeau’s PP exploits in Florida and in the games that I saw him play, he was situated exactly in the same position he is here on the left flank with a 1-3-1 formation. It’s the exact same set up he had in Florida and the exact same coach/formation that had the Flames top 10 on the man advantage last season.

Like I said though, personnel. Huberdeau had Barkov, Ekblad, Duclair and Sam Reinhart who by himself, scored 16 PP goals last season, good for 3rd in the league. Does Huberdeau have the same personnel to work with here? No he hasn’t.

Maybe the key is to have 2 elite guys like McDavid/Draisaitl or Stutzle/Tkachuk or Marner/Matthews so defenses can’t just hone in on just the one guy.

Whatever the actual answer is, for myself, at the moment, I see a powerplay that’s very easy to defend because they have not established enough credible threats any where else. Where’s the net front presence? Where’s the bomb from the point? Where are the seam passes? Where are the one timers? The slap passes, the one touch passes? Does anyone walk the line to create different shooting angles? The Flames PP units have none of these things that make a PP dangerous.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Agreed.

You've got a trigger man in Lindholm - but tell me this - when was the last time you saw him get set up for a quick shot/one-timer?

It was definitely nice having Tkachuk at the side of the net constantly funneling pucks to the net or trying his patented between the legs move. Defenders had to respect his net front abilities which opened up that one timer pass to Lindholm when the opposition cheated over.

[Savvy27]

Another issue is that the Flames don't play their stars as much on the powerplay as other teams do. Flames are 9th in Powerplay minutes in the league this year.

Huberdeau FLA 2021-22
G: 5
A: 33 (League Rank 2nd)
P: 38 (3rd)
PP TOI per game: 3:41 (14th)

Kadri COL 2021-22
G: 8
A: 21 (16th)
P: 29 (21st)
PP TOI/G: 3:53 (6th)

Gaudreau CGY 2021-22
G: 6
A: 19 (25th)
P: 25 (42nd)
PP: TOI/G: 2:57 (81st)

Huberdeau CGY 2022-23
G: 3
A: 10 (78th)
P: 13 (110th)
PP TOI/G: 3:07 (96th)

Kadri CGY 2022-23
G: 9
A: 8 (119th)
P: 17 (69th)
PP TOI/G: 3:13 (79th)

It seems like the Flames don't optimize their players. And it's not just this season either, as you can see, Gaudreau went through the same thing and was 42nd in league PP scoring while he was 2nd in overall scoring.

[browna]

Also, another Blasty game, another loss. Terrible record wearing those jerseys this year. 3-6 to this point.
3-0-1 in RR.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by browna

Also, another Blasty game, another loss. Terrible record wearing those jerseys this year. 3-6 to this point.
3-0-1 in RR.

IMO, red vs blue is the most aesthetically-pleasing combo for games. I was pissed to see the Blasty against Toronto, even without the ####ty record on its back

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Lindholm usually sets up in front of the net it seems, Kadri and Toffoli are the triggermen.

I'm not going to defend the guy ... just didn't agree on your stat summary.

All what you do with the injury.

If you give him a pass for a clearly bad concussion then it's one year with an elite start and an injury, a second year clearly elite, and a lost season

2/3

If you discount the injury he's 1/3

[Tsawwassen]

Postgame links
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl...ch-2-1.6766359
https://scores.nbcsports.com/nhl/rec...=21&final=true
https://www.espn.com/nhl/recap/_/gameId/401459564
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/games/2466457