What to do with Huberdeau?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Just stop with the Lucic was great for Huberdeau argument. Yes, Lucic is fairly good at puck retrieval. But he is NOT good at play-making, or finishing plays. Huberdeau needs to be playing with players that can work with him creatively. And he needs to be allowed to make plays.

The only reason Lucic was good statistically on that line (for a while) was that Huberdeau happened to be playing his best hockey of the season at that time.

You don't dumb-down a Huberdeau to play with a Lucic, you find guys to play with him who can help him maximize his value.

So coincidentally, Lucic just happened to play with Huberdeau when he was at his best for an entire month? We’re talking about hundreds of shifts here, Lucic definitely had a big part in helping Huberdeau’s increased production.

It’s not about “dumbing down” Huberdeau, it’s about insulating him with guys who do things he’s not good at. Huberdeau has also proven in the past that he doesn’t need great playmakers or finishers on his line to be productive. You don’t need 3 creative playmakers on one line, there’s only one puck, Huberdeau can by himself can be the primary playmaking quarterback on his line.

Since Huberdeau gets so many ozone starts anyway, what he really needs right now is a guy who can do the dirty work, cycle the puck around and get the puck to him with some time and space so he has more opportunities to use his vision and find open linemates.

Like I’ve said numerous times already, Lucic obviously isn’t the ideal linemate for Huberdeau. But so far, he’s been one of the best options so far since he’s played with seemingly everybody and hasn’t found chemistry. I mean Jonathan has played with the team’s current top point getters in 2 separate stints this season and they were awful together. There was no creativity or production happening there. It’s not always offense with offense with offense and I think Darryl knows this, that’s why he put Lucic and Huberdeau together.

[GioforPM]

I think Huberdeau and Lindholm would be better second time around. But if it’s a Lucic type that is somewhat complementary (and maybe you could argue that Bennett is a smaller and faster Lucic net crashing type) what about Duehr or (I can’t believe I’m saying this) Ritchie. They are faster than Lucic and less of a defensive liability. Or Ruzicka if he can ever crawl out of the doghouse.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by chedder

He's been invisible in too many games but he's also made way too many beautiful setups all season that ended in no goal due to the finishing ability of his linemates.

This team needs a quality shooter badly if Huberdeau is going to flourish.

Coronato?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

Coronato?

Until he puts pen to paper, Coronato is a ghost as far as I’m concerned.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Until he puts pen to paper, Coronato is a ghost as far as I’m concerned.

I think he will sign. Flames will have to handle him differently after Tkachuk. If the guy shows signs of being a player the, GM will need to be aggressive in offering him an 8 year deal.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think he will sign. Flames will have to handle him differently after Tkachuk. If the guy shows signs of being a player the, GM will need to be aggressive in offering him an 8 year deal.

Well, he needs to sign an ELC first. I think some people are concerned he’ll not even do that, post Fox.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, he needs to sign an ELC first. I think some people are concerned he’ll not even do that, post Fox.

Yeah and I said I think he will sign the ELC.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah and I said I think he will sign the ELC.

Is that what your first sentence meant? I misunderstood that. Or did you mention the ELC earlier.

Either way, he probably will. Most do, it’s a huge gamble otherwise. Injuries, big drop off in play, etc. An ELC is not much of ask for a young guy. 3 years is nothing.

[Vinny01]

The Flames have the best center depth they have had in a long time. Lindholm is on pace for 74pts Kadri 61pts, Backlund 50pts. Huberdeau and Markstrom are the reasons this team is not 1st in the west. Even with one of them playing at last years level this team is first in the Pacific. 4-11 in OT if that record was reversed they would be first in the Pacific. One more save or one more goal would do this team wonders who have lost 20 of 32 1 goal games this year.

Huberdeau and Markstrom need to be better or this team is trending toward the 15th pick in the draft.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Is that what your first sentence meant? I misunderstood that. Or did you mention the ELC earlier.

Either way, he probably will. Most do, it’s a huge gamble otherwise. Injuries, big drop off in play, etc. An ELC is not much of ask for a young guy. 3 years is nothing.

I intended it to read as that I think he will sign his ELC and if he looks like a player in the NHL the team will need to be aggressive in signing him to a long term extension kind of like what the Sabres have been doing with their young guys. Hope that he values the security of a long term deal over playing things out to free agency. You don't want these American players getting a whiff of free agency.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I intended it to read as that I think he will sign his ELC and if he looks like a player in the NHL the team will need to be aggressive in signing him to a long term extension kind of like what the Sabres have been doing with their young guys. Hope that he values the security of a long term deal over playing things out to free agency. You don't want these American players getting a whiff of free agency.

Yes, the RFA contracts have been aggressive. Big risk reward, but it seems to me much less of a risk than big UFA ones. TBF, Tkachuk is the only one I can think of who gave up zero UFA years. And I’m not sure it wasn’t cap that prevented a long term deal - they didn’t have the bucks to make him an 8 year offer. In hindsight, they should have figured it out even if it meant doing things like they later did with Monahan to shed cap.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Flames have the best center depth they have had in a long time. Lindholm is on pace for 74pts Kadri 61pts, Backlund 50pts. Huberdeau and Markstrom are the reasons this team is not 1st in the west. Even with one of them playing at last years level this team is first in the Pacific. 4-11 in OT if that record was reversed they would be first in the Pacific. One more save or one more goal would do this team wonders who have lost 20 of 32 1 goal games this year.

Huberdeau and Markstrom need to be better or this team is trending toward the 15th pick in the draft.

That might be the best comment on the team in about 4 months.

The franchise isn’t a loss.
The coach doesn’t suck.
The team is not fatally flawed
Matthew Phillips is not the saviour

The 2 most important players have been bad. That’s it. That’s the story.

If neither of them come around 15th pick seems likely.
If 1 of them does the team is a playoff lock and a threat to win a round
If both of them do they could win 2-3 rounds.

I think Huberdeau is figuring out how to check and still score as many players have done before him when they wanted to win more than put up points. It took Johnny and Mony a year. Huberdeau is 5-6 months in. I think he’s getting there.

Markstrom I have no clue. Goalies are voodoo.

[ComixZone]

It did not take Johnny a year.

The moment Johnny, Chucky, and Lindy got put together it clicked. That happened in Sutter’s 1st season back at the end of the season.

There’s no light that went on with Johnny. It was linemates. The Flames combined two elite wingers with a good centre. Johnny and Chucky elevated Lindy’s offensive game, and we got what we got.

The team is fatally flawed.

- No elite centre
- No elite defenceman
- No elite goalie
- Our elite offensive winger is having a terrible season. He could bounce back (I think he will), but the team isn’t winning with only 1 (potential) elite player in the least important position

Fatally flawed.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Markstrom I have no clue. Goalies are voodoo.

Markstrom is exactly the age that many good goalies stop being bonafide starters and become journeymen backups. Or in a more general sense the age that elite athletes fall off period. That was always the problem with that contract. Half of the term is in the mid 30s.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It did not take Johnny a year.

The moment Johnny, Chucky, and Lindy got put together it clicked. That happened in Sutter’s 1st season back at the end of the season.

There’s no light that went on with Johnny. It was linemates. The Flames combined two elite wingers with a good centre. Johnny and Chucky elevated Lindy’s offensive game, and we got what we got.

The team is fatally flawed.

- No elite centre
- No elite defenceman
- No elite goalie
- Our elite offensive winger is having a terrible season. He could bounce back (I think he will), but the team isn’t winning with only 1 (potential) elite player in the least important position

Fatally flawed.

Lindholm is still flirting with a point per game despite playing with a career 2nd liner (on pace for a career year) and a career bottom 6 player who will shatter his career totals. He is not a top 5 franchise center but still an elite player in my opinion. Kadri and Backlund are producing solid numbers for a 2nd and 3rd line C.

Ultimately if this team could add a legit winger on the Kadri line they would be among the deepest forward groups in the league. Their top line is cheap and their third line is expensive but one of the strongest lines in the league when playing together.

If Markstrom and Huberdeau were playing to their elite ability this team is clearly in 1st place in the pacific and the contender everyone thought they would be before the season started.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Lindholm is still flirting with a point per game despite playing with a career 2nd liner (on pace for a career year) and a career bottom 6 player who will shatter his career totals. He is not a top 5 franchise center but still an elite player in my opinion. Kadri and Backlund are producing solid numbers for a 2nd and 3rd line C.

The fact that some people will always describe a point per game centre that is great at faceoffs and elite defensively as merely “good” tells me those people are just perpetually negative.

We have a fatally flawed fan base.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The fact that some people will always describe a point per game centre that is great at faceoffs and elite defensively as merely “good” tells me those people are just perpetually negative.

We have a fatally flawed fan base.

We aren’t flawed. We’d just like to have a good team.

Lindholm has 1.5 seasons under his belt as a centre, and is coming off a playoff where he got destroyed by an elite centre.

The definition of elite is fairly undefined, I’d say that he is not in the realm of Crosby, Malkin, McDavid, Mackinnon, Bergeron.

I’d put him in that tier of prime aged O’Reilly, Schenn, Nugent-Hopkins.

[Naitix]

Put Huberdeau back with Lindholm and Pelletier on the wing. Huberdeau sets up Kadri for a good shot opportunity multiple times per game, he is just does not have the best shot. Lindholm should be able to finish more of those setups, and I think Pelletier would complement both of their games. The issue last time was that Huby and Toffoli are not forecheckers so Lindholm would have to take on that role, while now Pelletier is the forechecker and he starts many plays with his positioning and takeaways

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

We aren’t flawed. We’d just like to have a good team.

Lindholm has 1.5 seasons under his belt as a centre, and is coming off a playoff where he got destroyed by an elite centre.

The definition of elite is fairly undefined, I’d say that he is not in the realm of Crosby, Malkin, McDavid, Mackinnon, Bergeron.

I’d put him in that tier of prime aged O’Reilly, Schenn, Nugent-Hopkins.

So you want a center that 85% of teams do not have. Using the best player of a generation as the benchmark.

Nugent-Hopkins? Give me a break

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

We aren’t flawed. We’d just like to have a good team.

Lindholm has 1.5 seasons under his belt as a centre, and is coming off a playoff where he got destroyed by an elite centre.

The definition of elite is fairly undefined, I’d say that he is not in the realm of Crosby, Malkin, McDavid, Mackinnon, Bergeron.

I’d put him in that tier of prime aged O’Reilly, Schenn, Nugent-Hopkins.

We don’t know what a good team, or specifically good players, looks like.

This is a fan base that loves a winner, but if they ever get a pumpkin? Oh boy, every player is suddenly average, every player having a rough season was just smoke and mirror before and we all “knew” it then, every player isn’t actually good enough to be what they are on the Flames on a “contender.” We’re a miserable bunch who take losing like losers, and take it to heart, while anything outside of generational talent and Stanley Cups doesn’t do anything for us. You bet it’s a flawed fanbase. The diehards are at least.

However you want to define it, Lindholm might not be McDavid, but he’s better than any of the three you mentioned. Elite defensively, puts up at or around a point per game even without elite wingers, great at faceoffs, leads one of the best penalty kills in the league. End of the day, your chances of getting anyone better are low because nobody is stupid enough to trade anyone better and you have to be extremely lucky to draft anyone better. If that’s not elite, cool. But it’s better than “good.”