I agree that it's never proportional. I just don't see why it should be. If your opponent knows you will fire one rocket back for everyone of his, he can plan exactly how to strike and what response you will have.
Why doesn't Hamas build air defenses instead of spending all its budget on rockets? Each rocket the Israeli defense fires costs $100,000 it takes two rockets to bring down each rocket fired that is going to hit an urban area. Again, you're trying to quantify war. Israel is trying to send a message that shooting rockets at it is a bad idea. Is it working? no. I don't know what would work, no one does.
I just want the conflict to be over with as quickly as possible. I want there to be as little casualties on both sides. I don't want a single Palestinian dead. I also don't want the default action whenever you disagree with an Israeli policy to be fire a rocket and see what happens.
because they cant, because air defence requires control of the air, it requires radar that is very easily targeted by a modern military, Israel has air defence because Hamas is basically defenceless and has no real ability to do a dam thing, the Iron Dome system is all but useless in a real shooting war with a second modern military as its radar is easy to target
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I agree that the settlements are stupid! It's a money grab operation for those in power. The problem is that those settlement are a tiny part of a population. Lets compare settlers to Hamas for a second, both sides are extremists... The problem is that you think its okay to punish and group every citizen in Israel for their crimes against the Palestinians. It's not okay to do the same to the Palestinians though.
My point is that every culture has extremists... The average Israeli just wants to live his/her life.
The settlements are the whole problem, they arent a money grab they are an act of provocation on purpose to keep this going, Hamas responds because if they dont they will be overthrown by a more extreme group as the PLO were.
Stop the settlements and 80% of this is over, the last 20% will take more time and is more complex but the first 80% is the only way this starts and the reality is those in charge in Israel dont want this to stop
BTW I love this narrative that the media treats Israel unfair. Victim complex.
That's an article on wikipedia... Look I am sure I can find ones that say the exact opposite. Who you want to believe is up to you. Are there cases where children and healthcare workers get hurt? I have no doubt of it. I would say more whenever you have an 18-25 year old soldier in a high stress situation and an us vs them mentality, you will have individuals acting against orders. You will have people seeing red in front of their eyes and turning to violence.
Media is there to catch that violence, because it generates clicks. As far as media being unfair... media, no matter where you read it and no matter how respectable the source is, is there to convey an opinion. It can be presented in whichever way in order to meet the author's agenda. That's why I personally try to read media from as many sources as possible and read things with a grain of salt. I don't treat it as facts, because for the most part media outlets have owners and agendas behind them.
Again doing things to Palestinians... Israel wants nothing to do with the Palestinians... That's why they built a wall around Gaza so that maybe if there's separation there won't be conflict... As soon as exploding buses wasn't an option Hamas transitioned to rockets. Again, is Israel a saint that's doing everything right? of course not! Is Palestine? also no. Both sides are to blame... but it is a lot easier to see when your loved ones are not the ones suffering from either rockets or other types of munitions. That's why both sides hate each other. They are both trying to protect loved ones from getting hurt.
But see, that's exactly it.
Israel wants nothing to do with the Palestinians, yet they've shown time and again that they want the land that the Palestinians live on. Israel can't have it both ways.
They are the only real government between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River. If they claim the entire area as theirs, then they have the moral obligation to treat all the residents of that area with respect, equality and dignity. Creating a situation where one group of people is privileged over another, is the textbook definition of apartheid.
The settlements are the whole problem, they arent a money grab they are an act of provocation on purpose to keep this going, Hamas responds because if they dont they will be overthrown by a more extreme group as the PLO were.
Stop the settlements and 80% of this is over, the last 20% will take more time and is more complex but the first 80% is the only way this starts and the reality is those in charge in Israel dont want this to stop
Well its good you have it all figured out! They are the one and only reason for conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, everything the Palestinians do is now justified because two wrongs do make a right.
That's an article on wikipedia... Look I am sure I can find ones that say the exact opposite. Who you want to believe is up to you. Are there cases where children and healthcare workers get hurt? I have no doubt of it. I would say more whenever you have an 18-25 year old soldier in a high stress situation and an us vs them mentality, you will have individuals acting against orders. You will have people seeing red in front of their eyes and turning to violence.
Media is there to catch that violence, because it generates clicks. As far as media being unfair... media, no matter where you read it and no matter how respectable the source is, is there to convey an opinion. It can be presented in whichever way in order to meet the author's agenda. That's why I personally try to read media from as many sources as possible and read things with a grain of salt. I don't treat it as facts, because for the most part media outlets have owners and agendas behind them.
Fine, find the exact opposite and then we will talk. You act as Wikipedia, while has bias, doesn't have sources at the bottom of the article.
Here:
Quote:
he eldest of six children born to Ashraf al-Najjar, she was a resident of Khuzaa, a village near the border with Israel.[1]
The IDF released footage in which she purportedly admitted to participating in the protests as a human shield at the request of Hamas.[6][7] The video was later found to be a clip from an interview with a Lebanese television station that had been edited by the IDF to take al-Najjar's comments out of context.[6] In the unedited video, she didn't mention Hamas and called herself a "rescuing human shield to protect and save the wounded at the front lines", with everything following "human shield" trimmed out of the Israeli clip. The IDF was widely criticized for tampering with the video in order to chip away at her image.[6][7]
A UN investigation, the results of which were published late February 2019, concluded that Israel may have committed war crimes in its response to the Gaza protests, saying that dozens of children, two journalists and three paramedics, including al-Najjar, were killed by Israeli soldiers despite the fact that they were easily identifiable as such and did not pose any threat to the Israelis
So Israel shot her, and edited footage to make her look like a radical. Totally media bias here making Israel look bad? They are factually wrong here. The editing of footage is factual, totally innocent behavior by them?
Israel wants nothing to do with the Palestinians, yet they've shown time and again that they want the land that the Palestinians live on. Israel can't have it both ways.
They are the only real government between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River. If they claim the entire area as theirs, then they have the moral obligation to treat all the residents of that area with respect, equality and dignity. Creating a situation where one group of people is privileged over another, is the textbook definition of apartheid.
Honestly they don't want the land. There are settlements, I agree that the settlements are illegal and that Israel is shooting itself in the foot with those. The people in Israel, know that they will be the ones giving up territory in any peace treaty. Like Sinai for example, that's how the justify it, and it's wrong. The problem is that Israel would never part with parts of Jerusalem. But I agree there that the best action would be to just leave those territories alone. That said they are not the only reason for the conflict. It's over simplifying things quite a bit.
Okay, you are basing your opinion on an extreme opinion you saw on twitter, in order to justify another extreme opinion. Israeli citizens don't go to Gaza to rape or oppress anyone. In fact, they just want quiet. In all honesty Israel does provide water and power to Gaza. They let trucks full of money pass, but that is all oppression. You just see what you want to see. You need a justification to say one side is right the other is wrong. In any conflict both sides are wrong.
This isn't some rando on twitter. These are visible journalists. What would happen if Peter Mansbridge said Canada should annhilate somne indigenous tribes? Oh well just an extreme opinion! This just does not happen in 'liberal democracies' from influential people.
Also in that same thread is a senior rabbi calling on Israelis to kill all Palestinians leaving no one alive. Religious leader and journalists are two big institutions in society.
Quote:
Failing Gaza: undrinkable water, no access to toilets and little hope on the horizon
Do they let Gazans go out the other way when they let the trucks in? If they are controlling your movement, what do you call it other than oppression ?
Well its good you have it all figured out! They are the one and only reason for conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, everything the Palestinians do is now justified because two wrongs do make a right.
there is no right or wrong here, your Grandparents are living in fear and 10 Israeli's are dead so some orthodox morons can kick an arab family off the land they have lived on for generations and until the Jewish community preferably in Israel but also without tells the Jewish Government this is unacceptable this will carry on
Honestly they don't want the land. There are settlements, I agree that the settlements are illegal and that Israel is shooting itself in the foot with those. The people in Israel, know that they will be the ones giving up territory in any peace treaty. Like Sinai for example, that's how the justify it, and it's wrong. The problem is that Israel would never part with parts of Jerusalem. But I agree there that the best action would be to just leave those territories alone. That said they are not the only reason for the conflict. It's over simplifying things quite a bit.
Are you seriously bringing up land for peace??!!!?? Did you see the deal of the century?!?? Yeah Israel will give nothing back willingly. It will take sanctions and boycotts just like South Africa.
Nelson Mandela was a strong supporter of Palestine (and his son is too).
This isn't some rando on twitter. These are visible journalists. What would happen if Peter Mansbridge said Canada should annhilate somne indigenous tribes? Oh well just an extreme opinion! This just does not happen in 'liberal democracies' from influential people.
Also in that same thread is a senior rabbi calling on Israelis to kill all Palestinians leaving no one alive. Religious leader and journalists are two big institutions in society.
Do they let Gazans go out the other way when they let the trucks in? If they are controlling your movement, what do you call it other than oppression ?
Do we know really what this "journalist" really is to the Israel people and that context?
Is it Peter Mansbridge, Don Cherry or Ezra levant?
Its embarrassing to AB's that Canada thinks Ezrea represents our views in any way, this could be the same thing (edit: sorta, even I admit its unfair to compare Ezra to this type of rhetoric)
I'll be back boys, but a bit too much politics for now so going to watch the game for a bit.
I hope your Grandparents are safe and come through this ok by the way, it is easier for us in Canada to have an opinion when it isnt our families at risk
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israel has a ####ty, ####ty government. it's unbelievable how leaders in the west, with all their woke credo, wrap their arms around an ultra-nationalist far right party that has avowed racists in its coalition.
So Israel shot her, and edited footage to make her look like a radical. Totally media bias here making Israel look bad? They are factually wrong here. The editing of footage is factual, totally innocent behavior by them?
Rachel Corrie:
Quote:
Israeli bulldozer kills American protester
Israeli bulldozer runs over 23-year-old woman
Okay, so yeah I'm opposed to it... unless that populated area is firing rockets at me first. Then it's a military area with civilians that refuse to move for the duration of the military operation.
where are the civilians supposed to go? to the jungles of gaza?
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israel has a ####ty, ####ty government. it's unbelievable how leaders in the west, with all their woke credo, wrap their arms around an ultra-nationalist far right party that has avowed racists in its coalition.
The Economist in 2020 had Israel as only democratic country in Middle East and Tunisia as only one in North Africa. Current government can be defeated next election. Other countries in region don’t have that choice.
