[PGT] Lucic, Hanifin, Rittich dominate Sharks en route to 6-2 W

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

And didn't Bennett finish last year leading the flames in high danger scoring chances? D Will predicted a break out year for Bennett this year.


Yikes

I'm not predicting a break out at all. Not suggesting a home in the top six. But to think a guy with a bounce or two that is generally getting out played for the most part is a better fit than a guy driving play is not the way I'd go.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's not what I said.

Bennett had a miserable start to the season, but his numbers since January 1st suggest he may be back on track to what we've seen in the past; a guy that generates a lot but can't finish.

Since Jan 1st for forwards Bennett is ...
2nd in CF%
4th in Shots%
2nd in xGF%
4th in Scoring Chance %
2nd in High Danger %

Rinaldo is
14th in CF%
14th in Shots%
14th in xGF%
14th in Scoring Chance %
13th in High Danger %

This isn't "more shots", it's a sustained period of time where you're driving the play, generating more than the opposition and generally contributing to winning hockey games.

Rinaldo only played 6 games in that span and in 3 of them he hardly touched the ice so take any stats with a grain of salt. Of course his ice time also speaks to what the coaches believe.


Bennett seems a little more confident with the puck on his stick while Rinaldo does seem to give the team a jolt.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's not what I said.



Bennett had a miserable start to the season, but his numbers since January 1st suggest he may be back on track to what we've seen in the past; a guy that generates a lot but can't finish.



Since Jan 1st for forwards Bennett is ...

2nd in CF%

4th in Shots%

2nd in xGF%

4th in Scoring Chance %

2nd in High Danger %



Rinaldo is

14th in CF%

14th in Shots%

14th in xGF%

14th in Scoring Chance %

13th in High Danger %



This isn't "more shots", it's a sustained period of time where you're driving the play, generating more than the opposition and generally contributing to winning hockey games.

I guess I’m not seeing your bottom line then. What I see is a forward producing at a replacement player level who offers nothing else but offensive zone penalties. Having possession is nice and all, but time and time again he negates all that possession by making idiotic mistakes at inopportune times. If he was drafted in the 5th round instead of 4th overall he’d probably clear waivers.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I guess I’m not seeing your bottom line then. What I see is a forward producing at a replacement player level who offers nothing else but offensive zone penalties. Having possession is nice and all, but time and time again he negates all that possession by making idiotic mistakes at inopportune times. If he was drafted in the 5th round instead of 4th overall he’d probably clear waivers.

It all comes down to the counts.

If a player has more good things happen when he's on the ice compared to bad things the team is better off ... especially when you're talking bottom six players.

That's pretty straight forward isn't it?

He doesn't get rewarded for whatever reason ... terrible shot, bad instincts, no puck luck, and if he did he'd be a top six winger. He's not.

But this is now a discussion of scratching Bennett for a journeyman forward on a heater. That doesn't make any sense.

[Titan]

Originally Posted by gt4flames

Sad I missed that. I wonder if its on their website. I try to avoid TSN now because of all the Leaf blowing.

*** EDIT***

IT IS

https://www.tsn.ca/video/top-10-matt...oments~1898045

Site would not load. Then Auto-playing ads for 14 seconds. Garbage. TSN sucks.

[Titan]

Other than riding the guy on the heater vs. the guy that does not produce. Plus if the guy on the heater makes other guys around him better by his energy and/or making the opponents behave, that is also a positive, no?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So the answer to the question is.....corsi!

OK then.

I mean you're a noted Bennett hater so you see whatever you want and dismiss whatever you like to support your view. Bennett is the better hockey player but doesn't really fit your narrative as well so you just ignore that part I guess.

[GranteedEV]

At the end of the day Bennett has had at least a dozen quality setups since the all star break where his linemates didn't score. He also missed out on an assist on Rieder's empty netter despite that being, essentially, a result of his play down low.

Rinaldo tapped in a shot into an open net last game.

To someone basing their evaluatioj by a metric as flawed as points, Rinaldo's shot into an empty net is more meaningful than all of those fruitless setups by Bennett.

I think that says more about what different evaluators value than what the two players bring.

Personally I value someone who creates legitimate opportunities to score for his linemates. Certain posters on this board think results indicate process.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Titan

Other than riding the guy on the heater vs. the guy that does not produce. Plus if the guy on the heater makes other guys around him better by his energy and/or making the opponents behave, that is also a positive, no?

The guy on the heater doesn't make players better though. He's near the bottom of the pile in play driving stats across the board.

I like the guy.

I like the story.

I like the depth.

But he's not a better option.

[GioforPM]

Any coach that would sit Bennett specifically in favour of Rinaldo (other than maybe a game for disciplinary reasons or something like that) would be nuts. 23 year old Bennett has scored in the mid-upper 20s other than his 36 point rookie season every year. He can improve since he’s 23. 29 year old Rinaldo topped out at 7 points 3 years ago (he may better it by a point or two this year). He is what he is.

[transplant99]

Wow...context really is a lost art around here any more.

Again, I will ask...who RIGHT NOW offers the hockey team we all allegedly cheer for...the better game?

Is it the CURRENT 18 pt pace guy who sometimes gets physically involved?

Or is it the CURRENT 29 pt pace guy who has done nothing but be engaged since becoming a Flame?

Im not suggesting anything more than this....

The club has been better all season when Rinaldo dresses. 10-4-1 IIRC.

The club has a losing record when Bennett plays.

I mean these are just what has happened this year...so why would anyone want to not continue going with the formula that has had more success?

Particularly when both guys are pretty much in the same role?

Cause one has a better corsi?

That is an asinine reason/conclusion.

It wont last forever, nor am i suggesting it should.....but at this point? Yup.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Any coach that would sit Bennett specifically in favour of Rinaldo (other than maybe a game for disciplinary reasons or something like that) would be nuts. 23 year old Bennett has scored in the mid-upper 20s other than his 36 point rookie season every year. He can improve since he’s 23. 29 year old Rinaldo topped out at 7 points 3 years ago (he may better it by a point or two this year). He is what he is.

That aged well.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by transplant99

That aged well.

Bennett is sick.

[transplant99]

uh huh.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by transplant99

uh huh.

You think they are lying? OK.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Wow...context really is a lost art around here any more.

Again, I will ask...who RIGHT NOW offers the hockey team we all allegedly cheer for...the better game?

Is it the CURRENT 18 pt pace guy who sometimes gets physically involved?

Or is it the CURRENT 29 pt pace guy who has done nothing but be engaged since becoming a Flame?

Im not suggesting anything more than this....

The club has been better all season when Rinaldo dresses. 10-4-1 IIRC.

The club has a losing record when Bennett plays.

I mean these are just what has happened this year...so why would anyone want to not continue going with the formula that has had more success?

Particularly when both guys are pretty much in the same role?

Cause one has a better corsi?

That is an asinine reason/conclusion.

It wont last forever, nor am i suggesting it should.....but at this point? Yup.

Given that I'm not a simple results guy I'm not going to suggest that they lost with Rinaldo last night so therefore they didn't have success so therefore they should maybe go another way now.

Last night wasn't Rinaldo's fault any more than the losing record you posted above is Bennett's fault.

But context? You wanted to dress Rinaldo over Bennett last night to which I pointed out they aren't even in the same stratosphere in underlying numbers since January 1st ... Isn't that recent enough to fit the narrative we are talking about? Do you want less games? I honestly don't get it.

But I'll go more short term if you want.

Since the all star break Bennett has better numbers in his 8 games than Rinaldo has in his three (including last night).

But enough with the "because corsi" stuff. You know it's more than that.

Why would anyone want to look at less information when more is available?