Flames - how to cure the rot for 2019/20

[Jeff Lebowski]

What I found interesting were:
- Gio’s comments about not being afraid to make mistakes or fail. I think that’s a real thing in life but why did it happen to CGY. Was it hubris? Why couldn’t they play free and just let it go?

- Peters’ comments about not being able to utilize strengths in the regular season. Does he mean the difference in playoff hockey or did some guys never stick to the game plan that brought them success?

One team was able to be wave after wave relentless and the other team looked nothing like the team they were. CGY seemed to have to play a contain them style rather than play their game.

The adjustment after game one hugely tilted the balance of play for the remaining 4 games, Smith’s amazing play aside.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

If Treliving walks the plank for this season, then so be it. But I think he at the very least learned a big lesson this season. After last years debacle, I was hoping the Flames would start to build a team like Vegas, a lot of hard workers with speed who can put a lot of back pressure on opposing forwards and render them useless.

But alas, we didn’t and sadly, we ended up facing Colorado who has many similarities to Vegas. A lot of no name speedsters who probably collectively earn less than James Neal, yet made a big difference in this series. If Treliving starts to build his team with faster players with more oomph, then I would keep Treliving around. He’s a smart hard working GM, I just think he needs the right direction which I feel like he might have learned after this series.


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Tre is not going anywhere. More likely he will win GM of the year.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

The Flames play fast, but I don’t personally find a lot of these players fast. Like each line has a guy that lumbers up the ice (Neal, Monahan, Tkachuk, Jankowski) and these guys were all struggling to keep up with the pace in series. Neal was basically sat out because it actually helped when he wasn’t on the ice, that’s how bad he was.

But overall, I thought the Flames lost a lot of foot races in this series. Colorado had a devastating back check and Flames couldn’t do the same to Mackinnon and etc because he was basically uncatchable. The Avs completely dismantled our team. It really was a debacle.


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I noticed as well right off the bat in the first game that Backlund badly lost every race to the puck and was unable to keep up with any of their guys.

Avs v Vegas could be really entertaining to watch but too painful for me to tune in.

[NewFan]

I think we have 4 soft Cs. So I would trade a couple of Jankowski, Mangi, one of Hanifin or Kyllington, Brodie, this years 1st to find a good 1a, 1b Centre who can skate and battle, and 2nd line RW who is fast, and can hold the puck.
I don't want to pay Tkachuk more than Gaudreau. Sell Neal a half price and don't sign Smith.

[bluejays]

I think all players have to be considered for dealing, but to hear some suggesting Gaudreau is pretty crazy. He's a guy who can wheel and deal and exactly what you want going forward in today's league. I've mentioned it before but the first thing you should check off is anyone who can't skate is worth exploring a trade for. So you have guys like Monahan, Neal, and Brodie. I'm sure there would be lineups for teams to get Monahan, but who would give up a guy who can skate as well as has puck sense, is the question? So perhaps if they're targeting someone high at the draft it's Monahan + 2nd rounder for a high pick. Neal, eat salary and get a 2nd rounder back - maybe even at next years deadline. Brodie could get a late 1st perhaps. I'd also deal one of the younger guys for a mid-career guy who can play hard - going too young seems a bit inexperienced.


The core didn't look good, but this in hindsight was a bad matchup and not indicative of how they'd fare against 25 of the other teams. So I don't think you blow it up - simple retool should be fine. It starts with speed and puck sense so the Flames gotta zero in on finding that talent while some of the younger talent matures a bit.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Tre is not going anywhere. More likely he will win GM of the year.

Yeah I don’t think he’s going anywhere either. I was actually defending him for most of my post. He’s a smart GM and he works harder than anyone else. I just don’t think he’s targeting the right kind of players.


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[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

What I found interesting were:
- Gio’s comments about not being afraid to make mistakes. I think that’s a real thing in life but why did it happen to CGY. Was it hubris? Why couldn’t they play free and just let it go?

-Peters’ comments about not being able to utilize strengths in the regular season. Does he mean the difference in playoff hockey or did some guys never stick to the game plan that brought them success?

One team was able to be wave after wave relentless and the other team looked nothing like the team they were. CGY seemed to have to play a contain them style rather than play their game.

The adjustment after game one hugely tilted the balance of play for the remaining 4 games, Smith’s amazing play aside.

Personally I think thats speaking to playoff hockey. Much more difficult to utilize your strengths when the intensity ramps up and the other team is playing to take those away.

[2macinnis2]

I think leadership in the room is a concern too. Giordano is an amazing story, excellent player and all around great dude it seems. But to have an older captain who has won absolutely nothing at the NHL level in the post-season may be a big problem. It could contribute to the team's fragility.

[Strange Brew]

I think it’s fair to gnash our teeth for a while and let the Gaudreau and Monahan haters come out of the woodwork.

But I’m coming around to the idea that you simply have to hope the regular season was an indicator of this team taking a huge step forward. You make some tweaks, focus on mental preparation, ask Peters what he learned about playoff hockey and his team and give it a run next year.

The alternative is too grim. If we just saw the real Flames in that series, then no trade is getting us out of this. Only high draft picks.

Is it a foregone conclusion that guys like Gaudreau and Monahan will never learn to excel in the playoffs?

[Vinny01]

What stings the most for me with this team right now is the regular season seemed to wash away the fears I had about this team being so bi-polar. Under Gulutzan you always knew that lull was coming but this team always responded this year. It was what gave me confidence even yesterday that they would put in a full 60 and get the momentum back.

The fact they got dominated pretty much as badly as they have by the Ducks in the last 2 playoffs by the Avs changes the summer plan significantly imo. Based on this regular season I would have thought some chair shuffling was all that was going to happen. Now I am not so sure I could see several changes as Treliving is never afraid to make a deal.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I think it’s fair to gnash our teeth for a while and let the Gaudreau and Monahan haters come out of the woodwork.

But I’m coming around to the idea that you simply have to hope the regular season was an indicator of this team taking a huge step forward. You make some tweaks, focus on mental preparation, ask Peters what he learned about playoff hockey and his team and give it a run next year.

The alternative is too grim. If we just saw the real Flames in that series, then no trade is getting us out of this. Only high draft picks.

Is it a foregone conclusion that guys like Gaudreau and Monahan will never learn to excel in the playoffs?

It’s looking that way. Their playoff numbers are depressing.

[sa226]

Im curious if they lean on Geoff Ward a bit.

Of the coaching staff. Those closest to the ice, he has been around a lot of different teams of various success, up to and including the Cup.

I wonder if he has insight into what happened, what he thinks needs to change.

Peters and Huska are excellent coaches, but haven't really been around many different NHL teams.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by sa226

Im curious if they lean on Geoff Ward a bit.

Of the coaching staff. Those closest to the ice, he has been around a lot of different teams of various success, up to and including the Cup.

I wonder if he has insight into what happened, what he thinks needs to change.

Peters and Huska are excellent coaches, but haven't really been around many different NHL teams.

Peters was with Detroit for 3 years, making playoffs every year, winning the first round one time. This is his 3rd NHL team so that should be enough I’d think. Don’t know really, he’s never been on a long playoff run.

[sa226]

Ah yeah, right. I totally forgot about his Assistant jobs.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Is it a foregone conclusion that guys like Gaudreau and Monahan will never learn to excel in the playoffs?

Enough evidence suggests they won't excel under their current setup.

Could they excel by adding 1 more dynamic player? Maybe
Could they excel by being split up and having different linemates? Maybe
But just leaving as is and hoping they figure it out would be bad management.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I don't think any team would trade a bag of pucks for Neal & his contract...

I think the Flames should 'trade' James Neal to Stockton for Dillon Dube.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by jmerkel3d

I think this team is built to make the playoffs and contend every year. Like any team that needs to learn how to win in he playoffs, we need to go through it, learn how to win in the playoffs, and tweak the team year after year and add supporting pieces that will get you over the hump. That's how it's done.

In order to learn about the playoffs, you need to be playing playoff hockey. There are lessons to be learned from winning a round or two and coming up short in tough battles against good teams.
The Flames can't even get in long enough to learn any of those lessons. They pretty much get to the dance and can't wait to leave. The only lesson learned this playoff is that the team is nowhere near good enough to compete at this time of year, and changes need to happen.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Enough evidence suggests they won't excel under their current setup.

Could they excel by adding 1 more dynamic player? Maybe
Could they excel by being split up and having different linemates? Maybe
But just leaving as is and hoping they figure it out would be bad management.

We definitely need another dynamic forward.

[atb]

Not that he plays a hard game, but wonder what it would take to get Eichel out of Buffalo. There's been speculation that he hasn't reached the level that Buffalo's management have been hoping for and there's a bit of a rift. He definitely has the ability to carry the puck in with speed and would draw more attention compared to Monahan, possibly freeing up space for Gaudreau.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I was stunned by many of the pregame comments (for the last 4 games) of how they said they were gonna dictate, they weren't going to sit back etc. But you never saw it. To me they were hesitant - they never had the throttle down.

Is that because physically they were overwhelmed by COL or is it something mental?