[Signing] Oilers have re-signed Koskinen (3 yrs, $4.5 mil AAV, 15 team NTC)

[Red]

Do Oilers have any players that are underpaid? Like Johnny, Mony, Lids etc?

No wonder that team is where they are. They throw money around like crazy. Remember Horcoff and Pisani?
They never learn.

[Ozy_Flame]

Did a quick analysis on all the goalies who have played more than 30 games this season (implying most are #1 goalies so far this year). The average cap hit of these goalies is $5.3 million, and the average salary is $5.6 million. Also, Koskinen's save % is better than half of the top-ten highest paid goalies in the league this year.

It's really not that bad of a deal performance wise and in relation to other goalies. What is confounding is how quickly they jumped to this conclusion without seeing the consistency first.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Yes and Martin Jones had 34 games of total experience to Koskinen's 31 when the Sharks threw a 1st round pick at him and anointed him as the future starter. All that really matters is if a team and their scouts have determined that a guy can be the team's future starter.

I guess the Oilers have liked what they've seen through all his pro hockey experience and they've decided that out of all the options that will be available to them in July, he'll be the best starting option for them going forward at that price. Really, if he plays 60 games for them next season, is $4.5M really a ridiculous sum of money?

I mean, the guy was already making $2.5M this season on a prove me deal. So after a successful stint, they re-sign him to a multi-year deal where he gets a $2M raise paying him through his UFA years. This is not that outrageous. They were just paying Talbot a comparable amount and Koskinen has been far better.

To be successful you need a few bargains on your team. When your starter fails and your back up excels you should take advantage of it. Play the cheap new starter. The Oilers just gave their backup starter money so the bargain goalie is lost.

They are getting a lot from Chiasson. But that bargain will turn bad soon as well. Oilers.....

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Did a quick analysis on all the goalies who have played more than 30 games this season (implying most are #1 goalies so far this year). The average cap hit of these goalies is $5.3 million, and the average salary is $5.6 million. Also, Koskinen's save % is better than half of the top-ten highest paid goalies in the league this year.

It's really not that bad of a deal performance wise and in relation to other goalies. What is confounding is how quickly they jumped to this conclusion without seeing the consistency first.

Not really a fair analysis. Lunqvist's contract was signed years ago when he was really good. Same with Holtby, Bob, Quick, etc. Plus a bunch have been Vezina candidates and winners, Cup winners, etc. They have track records, and had them at the time of their contract signing. By this standard, Rittich should be paid more than Price.

Sure, if Koskinen plays for 4 years at his November pace it's a deal. But why would anyone assume that, especially given his January play?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

The acquisition cost of Martin Jones as a way to validate Koskinen's contract doesn't add up.

Jones was a 25 year old emerging number one goaltender with a strong resume dating back to junior.

If the Sharks weren't willing to pay a 1st for him someone else would have. Koskinen, I'm not sure he gets north of $3 Million on the open market.

Martin Jones was never even drafted. He was pretty good in the AHL, played 34 total games as a legitimate back up over 2 seasons and some teams thought he had the potential to be a #1. So he was traded for and signed a $3 million deal in 2015 as an RFA.

Koskinen is actually in a better position IMO. He's played in the KHL for years and did well. He has stolen the job from the Oiler's previous #1 in Cam Talbot and as a UFA in 2019 with the cap sitting at where it is and rising, he should theoretically get more.

Nobody on this message board really knows anything about contracts and what agents and managers are thinking behind closed doors. We don't know really know what his actual demand is nor do we know what his worth would be on the open market. As idiotic as Peter Chiarelli has been with trades and player acquisition, he's still an experienced NHL GM and has a Stanley Cup to his name. So he probably still knows a little more than we do regarding situations like this.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Did a quick analysis on all the goalies who have played more than 30 games this season (implying most are #1 goalies so far this year). The average cap hit of these goalies is $5.3 million, and the average salary is $5.6 million. Also, Koskinen's save % is better than half of the top-ten highest paid goalies in the league this year.

It's really not that bad of a deal performance wise and in relation to other goalies. What is confounding is how quickly they jumped to this conclusion without seeing the consistency first.

In his short time statistically he may be worth 4.5, but he had no leverage. Teams need a few bargains. That's why draft and ELCs are so important.
Can you imagine what the Flames payroll would be if out top line got UFA type money and our 3 young D were on free agent $$$?
The Flames have a bunch of players that are out playing their contracts. Who on the Oilers is doing that? Chiasson? Any one else?

[sureLoss]

Chris Johnston @reporterchris
Mikko Koskinen's #oilers extension includes a limited no-trade clause.


edit: reportedly a 15 team NTC

[Red]

When he played well for those 10 games I thought damn it, oil got a good cheap replacement for when Talbot leaves.

Thanks Chia. Somehow you messed that up. He no longer plays that good and just doubled his salary.

[TheScorpion]

Mikko Koskinen has a no-trade clause, also referred to as "the third million dollars"

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Did a quick analysis on all the goalies who have played more than 30 games this season (implying most are #1 goalies so far this year). The average cap hit of these goalies is $5.3 million, and the average salary is $5.6 million. Also, Koskinen's save % is better than half of the top-ten highest paid goalies in the league this year.

It's really not that bad of a deal performance wise and in relation to other goalies. What is confounding is how quickly they jumped to this conclusion without seeing the consistency first.

30 games this season? I don’t see how that is a comparable. He has played 30 games in his CAREER.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So one comparable out, move on to the next one, eh? Well, Jones had (a) a ton of AHL experience; (b) 2 PO appearances which weren't included in your totals; (c) was 25, so a multi-year contract made more sense; (d) was signed for $3M, not 4.5. He was also stuck behind Quick, so his NHL totals game were deflated. On any other team he'd have played a lot more.

There's tons of comparable out there. That's why it was not a surprising deal to me. Use Karri Ramo as a comparable if you really want.

The $3M itself isn't even fair to compare anyway. Jones was an RFA and Koskinen is a UFA, so you have to buy out those expensive UFA years. It's also 2019 where the cap will be significantly higher.

Also, Jones and Darling and Talbot and all these other guys out there were actually back ups to #1 goaltenders and other teams forecasted that these guys could transfer their performances as starters. Koskinen's situation is actually different because he's actually won the #1 job on the team that's re-signing him. So at the very least, they know what they're getting and the risk isn't as extreme.

[GioforPM]

I know a lot about contracts, actually. And deferring to Chi's wisdom seems a little off given he's universally seen to have overpaid on every major signing he's made, except, I guess, walk-on Chiasson and maybe McDavid. Lucic, Russell, Draisaitl, etc. - are those examples of Chia's acumen in "situations like this"?

Koskinen is not in a better position than Jones. Jones was not just pretty good in the AHL - he was excellent (and the AHL is a much more similar league to the NHL than the KHL). He also had international experience, as well as being well known as one of the best backups in the league. He didn't have that many NHL starts, but they were over a couple seasons, so not just a one season hot run, like Koskinen in the early part of this season. He'd already beaten Scrivens out of a job in LA. Finally, he had been traded for for a pretty big price, and therefore knew that SJ was going to have to sign him. And he still got $1.4 less than Koskinen.

Koskinen, on the other hand, had no North American experience, had a terrible last 10 games of play, would have known that a number of goalies were coming onto the market in the offseason, had a rival in Talbot, who though bad this year, has been good in the past and had frankly played roughly equal to him in the most recent games. Tell me - what team was aching to sign him in the offseason?

[EldrickOnIce]

I'm hoping Koskinen tweaks something, Talbot comes in and plays absolutely lights out, putting them into a playoff spot.
The timing of this makes zero sense.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

had a terrible last 10 games of play

Which, I can’t stress enough, is 1/3 of his NHL experience.

I actually don’t even believe the limited no trade tweet. There is just no way.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I'm hoping Koskinen tweaks something, Talbot comes in and plays absolutely lights out, putting them into a playoff spot.
The timing of this makes zero sense.

nah

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Red

To be successful you need a few bargains on your team. When your starter fails and your back up excels you should take advantage of it. Play the cheap new starter. The Oilers just gave their backup starter money so the bargain goalie is lost.

They are getting a lot from Chiasson. But that bargain will turn bad soon as well. Oilers.....

Player agents aren't interested in giving teams "bargains." They're here to help their clients get as much as money as possible.

And the Oilers are doing exactly that. They're playing their "cheap" back up who is already making $2.5M. Back ups don't get paid $2.5M. It's obvious he came in as a high potential 1B and he's over taken the #1 job and will be paid to start for them next season.

This isn't a Ilya Bryzgalov like contract here, so I'm not sure why there's so much overreacting. Possibly because it's Peter Chiarelli and he's made a lot of blunders lately and the perception is, he can't do anything right at the moment. But I don't think the deal is as bad as everyone seems to think it is.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I'm hoping Koskinen tweaks something, Talbot comes in and plays absolutely lights out, putting them into ninth spot.
The timing of this makes zero sense.

Fixed

[Knut]

How the hell can Chiarelli lose on this negotiation so bad. He gave him 4-5 M and. A 15 team No Trade Clause. Yikes.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Chris Johnston @reporterchris
Mikko Koskinen's #oilers extension includes a limited no-trade clause.


edit: reportedly a 15 team NTC

Why? Hes already in Edmonton, theres really nowhere to go but up.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

There's tons of comparable out there. That's why it was not a surprising deal to me. Use Karri Ramo as a comparable if you really want.

The $3M itself isn't even fair to compare anyway. Jones was an RFA and Koskinen is a UFA, so you have to buy out those expensive UFA years. It's also 2019 where the cap will be significantly higher.

Also, Jones and Darling and Talbot and all these other guys out there were actually back ups to #1 goaltenders and other teams forecasted that these guys could transfer their performances as starters. Koskinen's situation is actually different because he's actually won the #1 job on the team that's re-signing him. So at the very least, they know what they're getting and the risk isn't as extreme.

OK, Ramo was signed for a 1B salary for two years and then one year. In his mid-20s. For less than Koskinen. And it turns out that short term was a good idea, because, where is he now?

Sure, Koskinen won the number one job. In Edmonton. Over a guy that was playing badly and had done so for the previous season as well. In your Ramo example, he had won the starting job over Hiller (who was number one the year before), having taken over in the previous POs, and still only got a one year deal.