[PGT] They lost to the Coyotes

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

How to fix team: get rid of best players.

...it's beyond illogical.

Two moves that I think are absolutely necessary to cut out the rot:

1. Coaching is a huge part of team leadership, removing the current coach would be the single biggest change possible.

2. Brouwer is a bad player, a bad on-ice leader, and is wearing an "A". Buy him out, and transition the "A" to Tkachuk.

It's somewhere to start.

I don't think whoever wears the "C" or "A" has any impact on team performance and is highly overrated by fans. We don't know what type of leaders these guys are in the dressing room so it's merely an internal reward to the off-ice leaders, given by people in the know. If Tkachuk is such a great leader then I imagine he's vocal in the dressing room already. Having an "A" on his jersey won't change anything and will do nothing to actually help us next year (aside from pleasing fans).

[Huntingwhale]

Watched about a minute of the game, but I'm done watching Flames games this season. Classic Calgary Flames choke down the stretch, which has been the case since 2006. Can't beat a bottom feeder with your life on the line, you don't deserve playoffs plain and simple.

Wouldn't be surprised one bit to see the players mail it in with every game left and we don't win a single one.

Play for pride? This team has none.
Play for each other? They haven't done that in 2+ years.

There's maybe 2-3 players on this team who HATE to lose. But the rest...they seem to just accept it and go along with it. And that includes some of the top players on the team.

I love the work BT has done and want to support him going forward. But this is a punch in the gut for him, and hopefully he can learn his lesson going forward.

Regardless of what picks were traded away, fans need to realise that this rebuild isn't done. Not even close. Tons of work left to do to get this team where it needs to be.

But this team is also cursed. Even crappy teams like the Habs or Sens have bad seasons, but bounce back to make a deep playoff run shortly after. Calgary has no bounce back seasons like that, ever. We are cursed. Some franchises are simply cursed throughout their history.

We are one of those franchises.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

How to fix team: get rid of best players.

...it's beyond illogical.

No, it's not. The only way to really change the culture of a team is to move out core players. They're the ones who are on the ice the most, who set the tone for the rest of the team. Moving out Brouwer and Stajan won't change anything. Core players are also the only ones likely to get you a core player back in return.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

No, it's not. The only way to really change the culture of a team is to move out core players. They're the ones who are on the ice the most, who set the tone for the rest of the team. Moving out Brouwer and Stajan won't change anything. Core players are also the only ones likely to get you a core player back in return.

Unless you have locker room cancers I disagree. Is ROR a bad leader because the Sabres are terrible? Was Jamie Benn a bad leader last year because the Stars underachieved and missed the playoffs? Taylor Hall looks like a different player in a different situation and coach. The Flames when Darryl Sutter was head coach battled through adversity but once he went upstairs Iginla and Co. wilted in the face of adversity annually. It's the coach that sets the locker room culture. If players don't truly believe in the coach or system it will be reflected when the going gets tough.

[442scotty]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Ferland has been awful since he scored 20 goals. Has become a complete non-factor. Team needs an upgrade to to the top 6 in the worst way. Both Ferland and Frolik are not top 6 players.

As a huge Ferland fan I have to say wtf??? How do you do so well then fall off a cliff like he has? The guy has all the skills and has been getting better every year so what happened? Ferland has the skill to be top six. There's more to this I suspect ... Rene Borque syndrome ?

As for Frolik.... Starting to lose the game at an earlier age?

[Kswiss]

I still have nightmares of Chaisson on the first line from last year. Get the GG out of here!

[442scotty]

Originally Posted by Chingas

When Tkachuck and Gio are the only players that play with passion we have an issue. Are the rest of the players really not passionate about the game they have played their whole life or has GG neutered the whole team?

I would add Gaudreau to the passion list. Perhaps Bennett and Lazar as well but they are still struggling to improve their games.

This passionate hate to lose guys on this team are far outnumbered by the others who are just satisfied with now being in the NHL and collecting a fat cheque. That has to be a huge drain. The team needs at least 3 more of the passionate ilk and the scales will tip in the right direction. The slackers will be forced to pick it up or be shamed off the team.

And Monahan / Ferland.... Unless you guys are playing with debilitating injuries it's time to go

[Otto-matic]

Has the team even scored this year when they pull the goalie? I don't recall any tying goals when they yank our goalie.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Has the team even scored this year when they pull the goalie? I don't recall any tying goals when they yank our goalie.

We scored with the goalie pulled against San Jose a few nights ago. Unfortunately that's the only time I can recall, and of course we were already down a few goals.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

What I don’t get is why this fanbase jumped on the “The shots we take are no good” side being the problem.

The shots and scoring chances we generate seems fine (horrible PP notwithstanding) considering we lack scoring talent and speed at forward. It’s the shots that we give up that are a problem, especially when we are down and pushing for a goal.

I’ve been watching some other teams lately and it makes me really wish the league tracked 2 on 1s because I swear they are not nearly as frequent in other games I watch as they are against the Flames.

You see lots of 3 on 2s (Flames generate lots of those IMO) and usually a guy sneaks in for a breakaway a couple times a game but I feel like the rest of the league doesn’t give up that many 2 on 1s. Flames however tend to bleed them, especially once they are down.

Vegas game is the perfect example. Brodie has no forechecker on him, all the time in the world, he forces a flat footed pass and boom 2 on 1.

Later on that game it’s a 4 on 4 and a Giordano pinches, Monahan doesn’t cover, its creates a 3 vs 2 situation on the wall and they lose the battle. 2 on 1 back the other way.

Our problem is the chances we give up not the chances we create.

Yeah this is exactly how I've seen this team too. Everyone seems so focused on the offensive, when GG has basically the same goals/game as last year and having his top two lines performing at a high level.

What frustrates me is that the team added a "stud defensive defenseman" and a solid #1 goalie and ended up just being a disaster in their own end. I don't understand the defensive breakdowns, the stupid plays that lead to high quality chances against. The Flames have given up almost a full third of a goal/game over last year. GA goes back to last year's number of 2.67 and this team is in the playoffs with the scoring they are producing now.

You can easily win in this league with the scoring this team produces. But you have to limit chances against and get superior goaltending. How do you coach stupid brain farts out of players? It probably isn't something a "players coach" can do. It's something you need a task master to do.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Really? One could argue the are in The bottom half of the league in 1, 2 and 5.

Fair comment based on what I wrote. What I meant was that I don't believe on paper that this team in in the bottom 15 despite these gaps.

All of the teams in the 10-20 group have similar or worse gaps. In terms of straight player comparisons I would put is ahead of Colorado, St Louis, LA and LV

maybe
Dallas (I really don't like their D),
San Jose
Anaheim (mental roadblock not withstanding)

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

No, it's not. The only way to really change the culture of a team is to move out core players. They're the ones who are on the ice the most, who set the tone for the rest of the team. Moving out Brouwer and Stajan won't change anything. Core players are also the only ones likely to get you a core player back in return.

I'm not sure that the Edmonton Oilers would agree with you. Hasn't worked for them. I think this goes beyond core players. Just like in Edmonton, the stink is coming from the owners and management/coaching as well.

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Yeah this is exactly how I've seen this team too. Everyone seems so focused on the offensive, when GG has basically the same goals/game as last year and having his top two lines performing at a high level.

What frustrates me is that the team added a "stud defensive defenseman" and a solid #1 goalie and ended up just being a disaster in their own end. I don't understand the defensive breakdowns, the stupid plays that lead to high quality chances against. The Flames have given up almost a full third of a goal/game over last year. GA goes back to last year's number of 2.67 and this team is in the playoffs with the scoring they are producing now.

You can easily win in this league with the scoring this team produces. But you have to limit chances against and get superior goaltending. How do you coach stupid brain farts out of players? It probably isn't something a "players coach" can do. It's something you need a task master to do.

You have to remember scoring is up this year, so comparing those numbers straight across doesn't tell the whole picture. Teams are scoring about 0.2 more goals per game across the board, so all else held equal we should expect to score more and allow more goals.

Last year our 2.68 GF/60 ranked 16th. This year our 2.69 GF/60 ranks 24th.
Last year our 2.64 GA/60 ranked 14th. This year our 2.89 GA/60 ranks 19th.

[colbym72]

Has Smith's puckhandling ability added anything to the team? I am trying to remember goals where Smith started the rush. It seems like often he just whips it around the glass and makes guys have to battle for it

[Dajazz]

There is no "stink". It's decent, but unbalanced roster, which is poorly coached.

Get a new coach, redistribute some assets from defense/defense prospects in to scoring.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by colbym72

Has Smith's puckhandling ability added anything to the team? I am trying to remember goals where Smith started the rush. It seems like often he just whips it around the glass and makes guys have to battle for it

Gulutzan’s system isn’t not really one that allows teams to score off the rush. All about the short passes and 5 man unit.

[Johnny Makarov]

We should have just kept Jagr for the entire season.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Gulutzan’s system isn’t not really one that allows teams to score off the rush. All about the short passes and 5 man unit.

We'll get a new coach next year and probably all marvel within the first few games about how much faster the team looks, with mostly the same players.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by colbym72

Has Smith's puckhandling ability added anything to the team? I am trying to remember goals where Smith started the rush. It seems like often he just whips it around the glass and makes guys have to battle for it

I recall he's taken a couple of minor penalties for rifling it right over the glass this season.

The problem is that the d-men are not in stride when he attempts to handle the puck, so it renders the ability somewhat useless anyway.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Look simply at how Vegas jumped on the Brodie turnover and quickly and deftly executed their 2 on 1. Calgary just does not do that.

Forget your rebuttal trying to discuss finding muffins. None of Calgary’s 20 shots in the first were of that level of quality and if you watched the game you know that. That was unstoppable and not on Smith

Time and space. Just think in those terms. Calgary gives the opponents time and space, and they get in return a quantity of shots. It’s not that they are muffins, it is that they are forced. In terms of time and space. Crap shooting pct is not bad luck, it is forced shots. Throwing every piece of crap shot on net

Missing the net is the same narrative. Other team D is forcing them.

I saw 50+ shots from a team that never looked dangerous against two teams from New York and I saw 20 in a period against Vegas. Didn’t feel anything near dominant dangerous, step on a team’s throat and run them out of a game.

Stats can reinforce a hypothesis but they can’t overturn reality.

Well said. Was at the Islanders game and I've probably never seen a more underwhelming 50 shots on net. It was weird discussing it with the friends that came, because none of us could dispute that there was effort so it was hard to knock the team, but I also felt it was a lot of wasted effort. There was either poor shot placement, no screen, from low percentage locations, and tarely in position for rebounds or a proper screen.

The way I put it is in GG's system they're good at making it appear like they're trying to score, but not ACTUALLY trying to score.

When most teams are hellbent on scoring, they move the puck to places where there's a decent chance of them cashing in. Flames don't try to break in from the perimeter nearly enough (except for the odd times when they were playing with confidence), and they don't appear to have any set plays in the o-zone to open ice for players to get into key shooting locations. They cycle until they run out of space, then they get it to the point for a shot. Shot either misses or is blocked because they're throwing muffins or they don't pick up the rebound cause there isn't a Flame in position to get it (except when Tkachuk is involved in the play). Rinse and repeat.

How many seeing eye shots point shots have found their way in this season? Very few, so I don't understand why that's their go to plan for generating offense, especially when they're trying to tie a game or pushing for an important goal. Gio once every dozen games may sneak one in. Hamilton's goals have mostly come when he's found space near the right hashmark, not at the blue line. Yet we keep trying our luck with these long wristers from far out with no one timers, so it's likely to be blocked or deflected cause everyone that is defending is set up. No ####ing wonder the goals aren't coming.