Friedman: Flames a good fit for Kessel?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

13/19 already have played in the NHL, and at least 7 should be longer term NHLers as it sits now with some question marks on the other 6. (Mono, Bennett, Gaudreau, Colborne, Bouma, Granlund and Shore are the 7 with questions on Jooris, Arnold, Reinhart, Ferland, Agostino and Poirier)

The only ones not to play in the NHL are Klimchuk, Jankowski (both very likely even if for a cup of coffee), Smith, Carroll, Hathaway and Harrison. I could see all of them make it at least to the NHL, although not all for us.

There is also a difference between making the NHL and becoming an impact player. That's why I'm not opposed to trading some maybe's for a more sure thing. I don't even like Kessel, but he would be amazing on this team and plays on the right side which is the only area of weakness organizationally.

Of the right side players you have mentioned, not one has proven they will be a full-time NHLer, including Poirier and Shore. I think those two will, but I sure wouldn't be depending on it.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...k_feschuk.html

Fitness and coach's criticism in one handy package.

It's a double-edged sword though - if Kessel is indeed fit, then he sure is lazy on the ice.

a coach publicly criticizes his star player after a poor performance. What a strange and unusual thing to do.

[Jason14h]

The thing is, Kessel could fit onto the 2nd line and play powerplay, and not have the pressure or have to lead this team.

He would be the 5th or 6th most important piece to this team, but potentially add an upswing on 30 goals. That probably 2-3 wins.

Again it all comes down to costs. The team acquiring the best player in a trade ALMOST always ends up winning the trade.

If you can trade 3 parts for a star it usually ends up benifiting the team

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TOfan

how do you know all this stuff about a players physical conditioning and his leadership qualities? Reading forums? the Toronto Sun?

I'm always amazed by just how knowledgeable you seem to be about these matters.

Why don't you explain to me then why the Leafs would be interested in trading a 27 year old 30 goal scorer if he checked the boxes in all the qualities you look for in a young star? I have yet to hear a good answer from Leafs fans.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TOfan

a coach publicly criticizes his star player after a poor performance. What a strange and unusual thing to do.

The criticism was about fitness. Contrary to your post which essentially said no one on the team ever questioned his fitness.

Should I mention Spott's criticism, contrary to your statement that no coach ever questioned his attitude? Or Wilson's statement this year?

[Fire]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Just like Jooris and Bouma had no chance?

Neither player you mentioned made the team without significant AHL time, yet you think Klimchuk will?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The thing is, Kessel could fit onto the 2nd line and play powerplay, and not have the pressure or have to lead this team.

He would be the 5th or 6th most important piece to this team, but potentially add an upswing on 30 goals. That probably 2-3 wins.

Again it all comes down to costs. The team acquiring the best player in a trade ALMOST always ends up winning the trade.

If you can trade 3 parts for a star it usually ends up benifiting the team

I think that spending 8 million bucks a year on a player that you play on the second line and as a power play specialist, and you don't put any pressure on him is a foolish waste of 8 million bucks thanks.

and a 5th or 6th most important player at 8 million bucks is bad value.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Why don't you explain to me then why the Leafs would be interested in trading a 27 year old 30 goal scorer if he checked the boxes in all the qualities you look for in a young star? I have yet to hear a good answer from Leafs fans.

because they are 'rebuilding'. anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see this and know what it means.

the benefits of a package of picks/prospects outweigh those of having Phil Kessel on the ice for them this year and beyond. In the words of Mike Babcock; 'there will be pain.' But if you can't sniff this out for yourself, I'll do it for you.

Think of where the leafs are right now, and what the value of trading an asset like Kessel could mean to the trajectory of where they see themselves 3-5 years from now. I would argue that trading the already in his prime Kessel would be a shrewd move for the organization. Sure they give up their most dangerous offensive weapon, and one that was heavily scrutinized due to the cost of acquiring said weapon, but the 3-4 young assets are more valuble to the Leafs right now and moving forward. Further, the subtraction of Kessel from the line up effectively makes the team worse. Meaning instead of drafting no.7 this time next year (and if all goes well, or shi*tty depending on your point of view) they're picking in the top 5.

Again, no way the flames move one of their prized assets, but if you can get Kessel for a 1st, Backlund, and Gilles Treliving would have to strongly consider that.

[FlamesPuck12]

Originally Posted by TOfan

because they are 'rebuilding'. anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see this and know what it means.

the benefits of a package of picks/prospects outweigh those of having Phil Kessel on the ice for them this year and beyond. In the words of Mike Babcock; 'there will be pain.' But if you can't sniff this out for yourself, I'll do it for you.

Think of where the leafs are right now, and what the value of trading an asset like Kessel could mean to the trajectory of where they see themselves 3-5 years from now. I would argue that trading the already in his prime Kessel would be a shrewd move for the organization. Sure they give up their most dangerous offensive weapon, and one that was heavily scrutinized due to the cost of acquiring said weapon, but the 3-4 young assets are more valuble to the Leafs right now and moving forward. Further, the subtraction of Kessel from the line up effectively makes the team worse. Meaning instead of drafting no.7 this time next year (and if all goes well, or shi*tty depending on your point of view) they're picking in the top 5.

Again, no way the flames move one of their prized assets, but if you can get Kessel for a 1st, Backlund, and Gilles Treliving would have to strongly consider that.

Did you know that the Flames too are 'rebuilding'?

[Poe969]

I think Treliving would strongly consider it but I think the leafs would still have to retain salary.

I honestly think Kessel would be a good player on this team but that contract is going to be hard to move. The leafs are going to have to retain part of his salary just to trade him, not to get more in a trade. If Kessel was making less, I'd chip in to get him here....but he isn't.

I think there is a chance a deal could happen and a lot of it would depend on how much of that contract the leafs would be willing to absorb.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by TOfan

because they are 'rebuilding'. anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see this and know what it means.

the benefits of a package of picks/prospects outweigh those of having Phil Kessel on the ice for them this year and beyond. In the words of Mike Babcock; 'there will be pain.' But if you can't sniff this out for yourself, I'll do it for you.

Think of where the leafs are right now, and what the value of trading an asset like Kessel could mean to the trajectory of where they see themselves 3-5 years from now. I would argue that trading the already in his prime Kessel would be a shrewd move for the organization. Sure they give up their most dangerous offensive weapon, and one that was heavily scrutinized due to the cost of acquiring said weapon, but the 3-4 young assets are more valuble to the Leafs right now and moving forward. Further, the subtraction of Kessel from the line up effectively makes the team worse. Meaning instead of drafting no.7 this time next year (and if all goes well, or shi*tty depending on your point of view) they're picking in the top 5.

Again, no way the flames move one of their prized assets, but if you can get Kessel for a 1st, Backlund, and Gilles Treliving would have to strongly consider that.

I guess I'm completely anti-Kessel, I wouldn't accept that package. Its pretty much equivalent to three first rounders, just based on how Gilles has developed.

The Flames could probably package up that 1st and Backlund if they were desperate and get a pretty good youngish top 3 defenseman that would fill their needs better.

[iggyformayor]

Originally Posted by TOfan

how do you know all this stuff about a players physical conditioning and his leadership qualities? Reading forums? the Toronto Sun?

I'm always amazed by just how knowledgeable you seem to be about these matters.

I deal with one of Kessel's major endorsements on a regular basis, who are based (in Canada) out of Toronto and deal with him all the time. Trust me, the criticisms are not unfounded. We've spent multiple meetings chatting and laughing about his off season habits.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I think Treliving would strongly consider it but I think the leafs would still have to retain salary.

I honestly think Kessel would be a good player on this team but that contract is going to be hard to move. The leafs are going to have to retain part of his salary just to trade him, not to get more in a trade. If Kessel was making less, I'd chip in to get him here....but he isn't.

I think there is a chance a deal could happen and a lot of it would depend on how much of that contract the leafs would be willing to absorb.

It would be easy to retain salary on a 2-4 year contract, but for one like Kessel's with 7 years on it, I am trading the whole salary to the other team, even if it slightly drops the value.

[codynw]

Just don't see the Leafs retaining salary on Kessel. That's dead cap space for the next 7 years. It's not going to happen.

[Poe969]

I agree. That contract is going to be the death of them. If they want value back at all, they'll have to retain salary...for 7 years. I doubt they do and I think that's why they'll get a lot less than they would if he was on a decent contract.

They will end up getting something in return but not much unless they do the unthinkable and retain part of his salary.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by FlamesPuck12

Did you know that the Flames too are 'rebuilding'?

anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see this and know what it means.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

If the Canucks can retain on Luongo, the Leafs can on Kessel. It just depends on how motivated they are. If they retain even $1m, Kessel becomes much more tradeable at $7m AAV. I would not be surprised in the least if that's how this ended up playing out.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TOfan

because they are 'rebuilding'. anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see this and know what it means.

the benefits of a package of picks/prospects outweigh those of having Phil Kessel on the ice for them this year and beyond. In the words of Mike Babcock; 'there will be pain.' But if you can't sniff this out for yourself, I'll do it for you.

Tell me then why the Flames two years into their rebuild are looking to re-sign Giordano rather than trade him? Wouldn't the package of picks/prospects outweigh the loss of having Giordano this year and beyond? You know that answer just as I do in that Giordano is everything you would want in a player and Kessel is not. Hard work, leadership, high level of play on ice. All Kessel has going for him is the goals.

[Sylvanfan]

Honestly I think Kessel's salary can be managed into the cap structure. The issue with his contract though is the amount of term that goes with it. Given that the production for forwards does seem to decline pas the age of 25 especially for guys who came into the league at a young age and produced. Plus the fact that Kessel's fitness is worth questioning in my own opinion, I would look for other ways to improve the team.

I would have to know my costs on guys like Giordano, Monahan, Bennett, and Gaudreau before I brought in a costly termed contract on a declining forward. Teams that try to avoid a contract like this will always be limited in their ability to win because you cant' toss every 27 year old forward off your team....If you can line it up with your high producing players and fit the dollars and term into your cap structure, than I think you can look at adding guys who are pricey but do bring a unique ability.

Honestly it's next summer or the summer beyond that where the Flames can maybe start looking at the Kessels of the league. Right now if they're going to part with significant assets and or cap space, they have to focus on the right age group of players.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Tell me then why the Flames two years into their rebuild are looking to re-sign Giordano rather than trade him? Wouldn't the package of picks/prospects outweigh the loss of having Giordano this year and beyond? You know that answer just as I do in that Giordano is everything you would want in a player and Kessel is not. Hard work, leadership, high level of play on ice. All Kessel has going for him is the goals.

why bring up Gio? who said anything about Gio?

in fact trading for kessel now would only serve to augment my argument. having an elite RW, kessel, while Giordano is still in his prime only benefits the flames.

everything you just said about Giordano is a reason why you might want to bring in Kessel.