[Trade] Oilers trade Perron to Pittsburgh for 2015 1st, Klinkhammer - Page 14 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Soliak · 01-02-2015, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

Let's not blow the draft pick out of proportion. Not all 1st round picks are created equal. The way I see people talking in this thread you would think the Oilers were getting a top 10 pick that could turn into a lottery pick for another crack at an impact player. This is going to be for the 25-30th pick, where they will be very lucky to find a 2nd or 3rd liner, if that pick develops. This isn't a pick that is likely to get any better, it's a pick that has potential to move further down the draft order.

I think you are underestimating the pick IMO. Saying it would be 'very lucky' to find a 2nd or 3rd liner with a late 1st in a deep draft like this is pretty silly. They could easily get a great player with that pick.

Hackey · 01-02-2015, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soliak

I think you are underestimating the pick IMO. Saying it would be 'very lucky' to find a 2nd or 3rd liner with a late 1st in a deep draft like this is pretty silly. They could easily get a great player with that pick.

Agreed.

2010

26th: Evgeny Kuznetsov
28th: Charlie Coyle
29th: Emerson Etem
30th: Brock Nelson

Lanny_McDonald · 01-02-2015, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soliak

I think you are underestimating the pick IMO. Saying it would be 'very lucky' to find a 2nd or 3rd liner with a late 1st in a deep draft like this is pretty silly. They could easily get a great player with that pick.

I'll believe when I see it. We'll also see how deep this draft is. Some really good talent in the top 15, but after that, looks like any other draft. In any other draft you are very lucky to get a 'great' player outside the top 10. Later half of that first round you're likely targeting 2nd or 3rd liners. This is also the Oilers we're talking about. Who was the last player they managed to get outside of the top 20 that was any good? Eberle at 22 back in 2008? How about before that? The Oilers need to be trading for kids that are on the verge of playing in the NHL, not picks that they can use to make bad selections or mismanage in development.

Roughneck · 01-02-2015, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soliak

I think you are underestimating the pick IMO. Saying it would be 'very lucky' to find a 2nd or 3rd liner with a late 1st in a deep draft like this is pretty silly. They could easily get a great player with that pick.

I think you're overestimating the Oilers scouts.

Soliak · 01-02-2015, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

I'll believe when I see it. We'll also see how deep this draft is. Some really good talent in the top 15, but after that, looks like any other draft. In any other draft you are very lucky to get a 'great' player outside the top 10. Later half of that first round you're likely targeting 2nd or 3rd liners. This is also the Oilers we're talking about. Who was the last player they managed to get outside of the top 20 that was any good? Eberle at 22 back in 2008? How about before that? The Oilers need to be trading for kids that are on the verge of playing in the NHL, not picks that they can use to make bad selections or mismanage in development.

I don't disagree that it is not a trade that helps the Oilers here and now, I was just disputing that the player they select could easily turn out as a good player. If it was a Flames pick, everyone would be proclaiming 1st line potential. Don't let hate for the Oilers skew your perception, any first round pick could turn into ANYTHING. No doubt it doesn't help them at the moment, but that's not what I was saying.

I know you said outside of the top 20, but they got Klefbom at 19 in that 2010 draft and he is looking pretty good. That's the same draft Hackey posted above with some good picks. We got Poirer at 22 in 2013 and he could easily turn into a 1st line winger. Maatta at 22 as well. Anything is possible. I think we may see the Oilers package up some that pick, a long with a player or two in a trade at the draft, post tank.

Hackey · 01-02-2015, 09:09 PM

Tanner Pearson was a 30th pick. So was Simon Despres. Even David Perron was a 26th pick. Tyler Ennis and John Carlson were 26 and 27. You can definitely find talent late in the round.

Lanny_McDonald · 01-02-2015, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hackey

Tanner Pearson was a 30th pick. So was Simon Despres. Even David Perron was a 26th pick. Tyler Ennis and John Carlson were 26 and 27. You can definitely find talent late in the round.

Yup, 2nd and 3rd line talent.

Soliak · 01-02-2015, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

Yup, 2nd and 3rd line talent.

Yeah which is apparently 'very lucky' to be found in the late 1st round

CliffFletcher · 01-02-2015, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's a great return for Perron. However it's going to be a late first round pick and the Oilers absolutely stink at picking players outside of the top 15 so it's probably going to end up Perron for a Mitch Moroz type player in the long run as there's a good chance Klinkhammer will be better than the player they pick.

You would have to think the Flames could have got the same sort of deal from them for Glencross however I would think the Flames will wait until the trade deadline so they can assess their playoff possibilities much better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

I can't believe Perron fetched a 1st round pick.

People are underestimating Perron. Guy was a 1st round pick. He's fifth in his draft year in career points, behind only Kane, Voracek, Gagner, and Benn.

Three 20 goal seasons under his belt, including 28 goals last season. Still only 26 years old, so has several years of his prime to come. Could easily put up several 25+ goal seasons with the Pens. Signed for one more year.

The Oilers are extremely unlikely to draft a player of his calibre with Pittsburgh's pick.

And no, a 32-year-old Glencross coming off 12 and 15 goal seasons who is an upcoming UFA doesn't have the value of a 26-year-old who scored 28 goals last season who is signed for another season.

Hackey · 01-02-2015, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

Yup, 2nd and 3rd line talent.

Brock Nelson I'd say is top line talent. Pearson and Kuznetsov definitely have potential to be. The others are pretty legit 2nd liners. John Carlson is a top young damn in the league. All these players are quality. I think your trying to downplay that. And it appears that pretty much every year you find at least one quality player in that range so by no means is it rare.

CliffFletcher · 01-02-2015, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soliak

I think you are underestimating the pick IMO. Saying it would be 'very lucky' to find a 2nd or 3rd liner with a late 1st in a deep draft like this is pretty silly. They could easily get a great player with that pick.

Only if by "easily" you mean "statistically very unlikely."

Husky · 01-02-2015, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hackey

Agreed.

2010

26th: Evgeny Kuznetsov
28th: Charlie Coyle
29th: Emerson Etem
30th: Brock Nelson

None of those players are close to being as established as perron.

Dion · 01-02-2015, 09:41 PM

Olli Maatta's Ego‏@Olli_MaattasEgo11h11 hours ago

Welcome to the #Pens, @DP_57! Hope you have good health insurance.

Lanny_McDonald · 01-02-2015, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soliak

Yeah which is apparently 'very lucky' to be found in the late 1st round

Check draft statistics. Finding a player of any quality that late is lucky.

Bend it like Bourgeois · 01-02-2015, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Husky

None of those players are close to being as established as perron.

Thing is, even if they are, it's still a horrible trade.

The oilers desperately need talent and players who give a crap, so they traded that away for a 1 in 5, maybe 1 in 3, or *at best* a 50-50 shot of getting back what they lost. In 3 years! Not because they get extra futures, or he was old, on a crap contract or a ufa who would not sign. Because oilers.

Anyone who wants to trade me their next paycheck for a coin flip to get it back 3 years from now let me know. I'll take that action all day.

Hackey · 01-02-2015, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Husky

None of those players are close to being as established as perron.

You missed the point. The list was to show that you can draft quality players with a late first. There was no talk of comparison.

JiriHrdina · 01-02-2015, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hackey

You missed the point. The list was to show that you can draft quality players with a late first. There was no talk of comparison.

Is anyone disputing that? The point is what is the probability of actually doing it?

Husky · 01-02-2015, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hackey

You missed the point. The list was to show that you can draft quality players with a late first. There was no talk of comparison.

And I'm saying those players are not the same quality as perron period.

Caged Great · 01-02-2015, 10:53 PM

With the Oilers draft history, they would be better of dealing it towards the draft.

Locke · 01-02-2015, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soliak

I think you are underestimating the pick IMO. Saying it would be 'very lucky' to find a 2nd or 3rd liner with a late 1st in a deep draft like this is pretty silly. They could easily get a great player with that pick.

It would have to be by complete accident.