Ukraine Presidential Crackdown Violence. Russia Invades Ukraine

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I agree to some extent, though it's more a ramping up of territorial pressure rather than a new precedent. This went on with the US for a long time and Russia under Putin has been engaged in this for a while

If annexing territory is just normal territorial pressure that would be outright alarming. Russia could rebuild the whole former Eastern block doing this. De-stabalize the existing government in protests for one reason or another, send in "people's militias" for security. Profit. This is almost an identical pattern used in Georgia except there the Georgians actually fought back, though in vain. China seeing this precedent set could start eyeing Taiwan as well.

Other thing is Ukraine and many other ex-Eastern block states are now free to resume building nukes as the previous agreements to respect their territorial sovereignty are not being honored.

[FlameOn]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...s-live-updates

[worth]

Interesting.

This article is from 2012, but outlines Article 4:

Under Article 4, any member state can convene a meeting of NATO members to "consult" when it feels its independence or security are threatened. In practice, it has rarely been used and sends a strong political symbol to the greater world that NATO is concerned about a particular situation.

Article 5 is known as the "one-for-all and all-for-one" article, the keystone of NATO as an organization. It states that an "armed attack" against one member is an attack against all and sets in motion the possibility of collective self-defense.

However, it only commits members to "assist the party or parties so attacked" and to take "such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force…." It does not automatically result in military action.

http://www.rferl.org/content/explain.../24626653.html

[Mr.Coffee]

can't we all just get along?

[Resolute 14]

Interesting. The government is recalling our ambassador from Russia?

https://twitter.com/NewsTalk770/stat...21893861515264

We're also "pulling out of the G8 process", which is currently chaired by Russia.

http://www.brandonsun.com/national/b...911.html?thx=y

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Listen to Dan Carlin on this and you'll wonder about the West's active role in this situation

http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/cs

[Tyler]

Man, if they cancel the G8 Summit in Sochi, that $51B will seem like a real waste of money

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

can't we all just get along?

Approximately 6,000 years of human civilization would indicate that sadly no, we cannot all get along.

[irrevocable]

Putin will get what he wants. Let's see if the international community can muster a strategy.

[PIMking]

saw this on Twitter and laughed a little

[JonDuke]

Obama on phone with Putin...



Putin taking notes...

[MrMastodonFarm]

Stop trying to make this the Funny/Cool picture thread. God dammit you two.

[PIMking]

I'm sorry....



That's it... lOL

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That those votes are illegal goes without saying. Anything the Crimean parliament does is invalid given the fact that any action is taken under duress, and the fact that nobody knows who is actually voting.

True. Which is why Putin will need to bring UN troops in first, to give the vote legitimacy.

Meanwhile, Putin's press-secretary said that the decision on using troops is not made yet and Russia will not use "extreme measures" if "situation will change".

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Stop trying to make this the Funny/Cool picture thread. God dammit you two.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Pointman

True. Which is why Putin will need to bring UN troops in first, to give the vote legitimacy.

Meanwhile, Putin's press-secretary said that the decision on using troops is not made yet and Russia will not use "extreme measures" if "situation will change".

He's already got troops on the ground and already used them to seize key installations like government buildings, airports, communications centers and tried on an air defense base. The decision is nothing more than a rubber stamp if Putin gives the order. Unless he means letting the troops fire outside standard ROE.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

If annexing territory is just normal territorial pressure that would be outright alarming. Russia could rebuild the whole former Eastern block doing this. De-stabalize the existing government in protests for one reason or another, send in "people's militias" for security. Profit. This is almost an identical pattern used in Georgia except there the Georgians actually fought back, though in vain. China seeing this precedent set could start eyeing Taiwan as well.

While there's a lot of truth in your post, it should be noted that it wasn't Russia who was de-stabilizing the situation in Ukraine at the first place. Just a couple of days ago all the western media were about how "the pro-EU people of Ukraine" have toppled the "pro-Moscow" president, and how Russia's interests in the region are defeated. Now that Putin has made decisive - albeit wrong - moves to benefit from the situation, people are talking about how it was his plan from the start. Although it is anyone's guess, I personally don't believe that annexing Crimea would worth all the trouble and money loss Russia will suffer from Ukraine's bankrupcy. Russia gaines no "profit" here on the big picture. We'd rather have safe and prospering country at our borders. At modern world territory doesn't mean all that much. Talking about Georgian war, do you really believe that having South Osetia as de-facto russian land does make a lot of difference for Russian economy?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

He's already got troops on the ground and already used them to seize key installations like government buildings, airports, communications centers and tried on an air defense base. The decision is nothing more than a rubber stamp if Putin gives the order. Unless he means letting the troops fire outside standard ROE.

He's got like 2-6K over there. The "decision" is about sending a real army, which wouldn't "try" to take over an air defense base.

[Johnny199r]

Russia is in a position of strength. Afghanistan and Iraq has fatigued the West in terms of war.

[JonDuke]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Russia is in a position of strength. Afghanistan and Iraq has fatigued the West in terms of war.