Toronto Raptors 2013/14 Season

[Zach]

Solid W

[Hockey_Ninja]

10 games over .500. Who seriously saw a season like this coming at the beginning of the year?

[Da_Chief]

Nobody then the Gay trade happened!

[killer_carlson]

I sure didn't see DR turning the page with his play, that is for sure

[moon]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

10 games over .500. Who seriously saw a season like this coming at the beginning of the year?

I knew the East would be bad but didn't think it would be this pathetic.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by moon

I knew the East would be bad but didn't think it would be this pathetic.

Yup they beat up another weak eastern team tonight

[moon]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Yup they beat up another weak eastern team tonight

You're right if they are in the West they are likely 10 games over .500 .

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by moon

You're right if they are in the West they are likely 10 games over .500 .

They're 14-12 vs the West. 2 games above .500.

#8 West Seed Grizzlies (who the Raps beat tonight) 21-19 vs West
#7 West Mavs 20-18 vs West

Only Thunder, Clippers, Spurs are above .500 vs the West.

Pacers 17-10 (7 above .500) vs the West

Is it a stretch to suggest they can compete for a playoff spot in the West? Don't think so. No one's saying they'd be a top team (they're not even in the East) but have beaten the likes of Grizz, Mavs, Warriors etc. They are a decent team.

Once in a while it's ok to appreciate someones effort. Don't have to be a pessimist all the time.

You're a Heat fan right?

[moon]

The comment was who thought they would be 10 games over .500. I said I didn't think the East would be so bad meaning if it was better the Raptors are likely not 10 games above .500.

You coming in and changing the discussion has nothing to do with my original comment which was in response to the 10 games over .500.

As to your question no I am not a Heat fan but have got tired of all the crap LeBron and the Heat got for doing nothing wrong at all. I am a Raptors fan but it is tough based on all the crap teams they have had, stupid moves they make and having an unlikable team. Also listening to the TO media hype them up all the team gets tiresome even for a fan of the team, in my view.

A stretch to say they would be a play-off team in the West? I guess not but unlikely.

Saying they wouldn't be 10 games over .500 if the East was better isn't 'not appreciating someone's effort" by the way.

[Da_Chief]

I've got not desire to get into it with you but this is what you've posted in this Raptors thread so far this year. Same tone all year! It didn't matter if they were doing well or bad. So it'd be ok to drop the negative nancy act one in a while. I guess it got cutoff. Theres more, I'm sure you get the idea. lol

Originally Posted by moon

Might as well keep Casey there until the end of the year.

Hard to see them tanking with Gay still in the line-up. As much as he (and Derozan) kills them with terrible shots, hogging the ball and no defense he can score enough to win them a few extra games.

If Ujiri can dump those 2 boneheads (and if he does he should be GM of the Year) then they are able to go into full tank mode with Valcunias and Lowry as the focus of the offense. That should get them bottom 5 easily.

Originally Posted by moon

I like the deal because if nothing else it gets rid of Gay who was always going to have the Raptors stuck in mediocrity with him and his cap hit on the team. Plus him and DD were a terrible fit since both loved shooting bad shots and both loved ignoring the defensive end.

Salmons and Hayes are just contracts and should be gone after this season if not earlier. Vazquez could be a fine replacement short term if they are able to get rid of Lowry.

The team needed to go all in (which would have been a bad move) or start dumping the deadweight. Good to see them go the right way and hopefully this will be the first of many moves. Would be nice to see Lowry and DD gone as well.

Originally Posted by moon

It was a decent trade for the Knicks and not sure why the Nuggets trade gets talked up as such a killing for the Nuggets. It may have been one-sided but far from the steal or raping that many seem to have it painted as now.

I like the idea of getting rid of Lowry but the return is pretty underwhelming from the Knicks. Would prefer it if they can keep that scumbag Artest out of it.

Originally Posted by moon

Hey at least now when Doug Smith trots out his BS "this team isn't as bad as people think" and "they might be close" he can use this while ignoring the other 500 games over the past 6+ seasons as his evidence.

I guess after following these losers for so long I shouldn't be surprised that they would screw up a tank.

Originally Posted by moon

If the play-offs started today the Raptors would face the Bobcats not only would that probably be the worst series in sports history that might be the two worst teams to ever make the play-offs in sports history.

I always thought the play-offs are cool and exciting for your team to get in but if they get in basically by default not so sure it is that exciting or does anything in terms of building a "winning attitude" for the future.

Originally Posted by moon

I think those teams are better than the Raptors and Bobcats and there is about 0 chance that ends up as a 4-5 match-up at the end of the year.

Detroit and Washington already have better records than the Raptors do and Celtics only half game behind.

Originally Posted by moon

I said if the play-offs started today so obviously not projecting until the end of the season.

I guess the point was I was shocked that those two teams could be in those positions with their pathetic rosters.

Originally Posted by moon

The fact that all it takes is a couple of stars to go from 0 to Champs in NBA is why this Raptors team needs to finish bottom 5 not middle of the pack.

Originally Posted by moon

Hopefully Ujiri isn't fooled by this and still moves out the deadweight.

This is still a horrible team and as tough as it is to see them tanking enough to get a top pick they still need to get rid of as many pieces as possible and try to get something for the future.

This team is lightyears away from contending and even in the pathetic East are at best the 6th best team and likely 12th at best if in the West.

Originally Posted by moon

Heat
Pacers
Hawks (although with Horford out for season we'll have to see)
Wizards
Celtics with Rondo back

I think Cleveland makes a move to significantly improve and they likely leapfrog Raptors as well.

Also even if they are top 4 in the East that isn't anything to be happy with because it is a long, long way from contending.

Hopefully Ujiri is not building a Nuggets like team as that team did absolutely nothing come play-off time and wasn't close to a title.

Originally Posted by moon

Yes I have to see about the Hawks why would I just write them off? It isn't like they have to play that well to be ahead of the .500 Raptors.

Wizards go as well as Wall? Considering he is a lot better than anyone the Raptors have that isn't a bad thing.

The Celtics are tanking so hard they are only 2 games back of the Raptors and were right there before the Raps went on this little run.

The Cavs are the 6th team so them leap frogging the Raptors actually puts an extra team in, may or may not happen but another team with more talent than the Raps with a good chance of being better than them at the end of the year.

The Raps are .500 right now. They are not some great team so it doesn't take much to pass them especially with the lack of talent they have.

I guess we will see what happens but the fact you even talk about being the 3rd best team in the East like it is something to be proud makes me wonder what you want for this team long term. Because 3rd in the East and no major, major upgrades in talent means no championship at all for this team for a number of years.

Originally Posted by moon

I did not watch the Pacers game tonight.

The only way to become a contender in the NBA is to get elite talent. The best way to get that is picking high. FA likely isn't a good route for Toronto because it isn't an appealing place to go. It isn't having a superstar falling in their lap it is getting him by drafting him with a top pick.

I don't think they can tank this year and am not mad that they won't I said I don't want Ujiri to think that a core of Lowry, DeRozan, Valcunias is good enough going forward. That is a very bad core that gets you nowhere close to a championship and realistically outside of JV this team isn't winning anything with DD and Lowry as 2 of its best players.

Best way for them to overcome the Heat is to hope LeBron leaves and Wade deteriorates because it will take TO 2-3 years at least to get to that level if they are lucky.

Originally Posted by moon

I have watched other games this year so basing it off that.

In the games I have watched Derozan is still a poor shooting, horrible defender. He is better than previous years but far from an all-star in my view.

Hopefully Lowry can play more like tonight and boost his trade value.

Originally Posted by moon

I think tanking is off the table for this year. Too many teams that are way "ahead" of the Raptors in that area.

But I still think this shouldn't change the long term plan and that pieces like Lowry, Johnson and DD should be moved out if there is anyone stupid enough to take them.

The team is going to make the play-offs by default it seems but isn't close to contending so any move made should be with the long term future in mind because even with the play-offs this year is basically a write off.

Originally Posted by moon

Tonight Raps at the end of the season Wizards.

Originally Posted by moon

I knew the East would be bad but didn't think it would be this pathetic.

Originally Posted by moon

You're right if they are in the West they are likely 10 games over .500 .

[moon]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

I've got not desire to get into it with you but this is what you've posted in this Raptors thread so far this year. Same tone all year! It didn't matter if they were doing well or bad. So it'd be ok to drop the negative nancy act one in a while. I guess it got cutoff. Theres more, I'm sure you get the idea. lol

So you're mad that I don't think the Raptors are as good as you and tried to turn my comment into a mini rant about what I think about the Raps?

Those comments show I am not impressed with this team this year not sure why I should change my opinion just because you think they are great.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by moon

So you're mad that I don't think the Raptors are as good as you and tried to turn my comment into a mini rant about what I think about the Raps?

Those comments show I am not impressed with this team this year not sure why I should change my opinion just because you think they are great.

Im not mad. Im laughing.

I Never said they're great. But as you can tell they're not as bad as you make them out to be. We can't control anything these teams do. As a fan if they're playing better then expected I can appreciate that and cheer em on. Thats all. If you don't want to all the power to you.

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by moon

So you're mad that I don't think the Raptors are as good as you and tried to turn my comment into a mini rant about what I think about the Raps?

Those comments show I am not impressed with this team this year not sure why I should change my opinion just because you think they are great.

I don't see how you couldn't be impressed with the Raptors this year? No one expected them to be anywhere near where they are right now. Are they impressive compared to the top 2 in the east and the top 6 in the west? No. But are they impressive in regards to what the expectations were? Absolutely!

I didn't think they'd even make playoffs, and now it looks like they'll win the division. Who cares how weak the east is...half of the league is in the east, and they're better than the majority of that half.

[killer_carlson]

Moon, I have no idea why you are even on the site.

Even when I have you on ignore you still find a way to ruin threads

[Da_Chief]

Sorry for quoting Moon and ruining the thread for you.

[octothorp]

I said at the beginning of the season that the main thing I was going to be looking for in terms of improvement was clutch stats (they were 30th in clutch +/- last year). This year they're up to 15th, which is a significant improvement but still has a ways to go.

A few notable things about their clutch stats, they're amongst the top in clutch offensive rebounds, which is an important stat. They're among the best in points allowed. They're also amongst the top in terms of limiting turnovers but near the bottom in assists, which goes with what I see on the court, which is an offence that tends to fall into predictable and safe offensive sets in the closing minutes.

Of course, the thing about clutch stats is that they don't capture performances like last night, where they tighten up the defence early in the fourth, go on a run, and by the 5 minute mark (the time when official clutch stats start) the game is already out of reach.

They are the top team in the league in 4th quarter differential, by a significant margin (+2.8, nobody else is better than +2.1). Is this an important stat? Well, consider that the next 4 teams in that measure are Miami, OKC, San Antonio, and Indiana. I can only find stats going back to 2003/04, but in that time only two other team had a 4thQ +/- better than 2.1 (Portland, with 2.5 in 2008/09, and Miami with 2.2 last year).

Of course, what really matters is how that translates into the playoffs, and that's very hard to predict. I like their ability to get a stop when they really need it, but worry about their ability to score a basket when they need it.

I'm really excited to be able to evaluate the current Raptors players in terms of their ability to perform in the playoffs. It'll give us a much better sense of where the team is at than any regular season statistic. Magic number for clinching a playoff spot down to 5.

[Senator Clay Davis]

If you told moon on Septemeber 1st last year that on March 15th, 2014 the Heat would be only 7 and a half games ahead of the Raptors, his only conclusion would have been the Heat were just absolutely terrible. He'll still claim they are playing down to their competition or not trying till the playoffs (or that they're older and have no bench), but ignore that the Raptors are the only team in the East to play a top 15 schedule, that the Raptors are top 5 defensive efficiency since the Rudy trade, and that the Raptors bench is very good.

The Raptors also have to re-sign Lowry. He's turned into a top 10 point guard. Trading him would have been a poor choice, not easy to find a top 10 point guard anywhere else.

[killer_carlson]

I like Lowry on a 2 year deal. No more

[moon]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

If you told moon on Septemeber 1st last year that on March 15th, 2014 the Heat would be only 7 and a half games ahead of the Raptors, his only conclusion would have been the Heat were just absolutely terrible. He'll still claim they are playing down to their competition or not trying till the playoffs (or that they're older and have no bench), but ignore that the Raptors are the only team in the East to play a top 15 schedule, that the Raptors are top 5 defensive efficiency since the Rudy trade, and that the Raptors bench is very good.

The Raptors also have to re-sign Lowry. He's turned into a top 10 point guard. Trading him would have been a poor choice, not easy to find a top 10 point guard anywhere else.

What's the point of this point other than to make up crap about me and take thread the way off course ?

[Antithesis]

It's cray that even in the midst of this run they are on, the Raptors haven't really separated themselves from the teams in their immediate vicinity.

Over the last 10 games, they have:

Gained 1 game on Chicago
Stayed even with Brooklyn
Gained 1 game on Washington

It has been a real blast to watch this team recently. Definitely looking forward to seeing how they can perform in the playoffs.