Streetcar shooting: Toronto police officer suspended

[valo403]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I know the evidence. I know that everything the officer did in the situation according to the laws set out by the CC and the PSA was lawful. I know that the director of the SIU is a cop hating dick and that the organization is broken and that they are doing this under pressure from the public. I also know that this officer is going to win, I guarantee he will be found not guilty. Do you honestly believe they will set a case law precedence where police when confronted with a hostile suspect with a knife will not defend themselves or protect the public because they are afraid of a murder charge? What did the officer do wrong here?
Suspect had a knife. Suspect was told repeatedly to drop weapon. Suspect was told he would be shot if he approached and moved toward officer. Suspect moved toward officer. Officer eliminated the threat which is what he was taught. He was not taught to shoot and then check to see if suspect was hurt, maimed, compliant or anything else, he was taught to eliminate the threat.
When a cop has to kill somebody (and believe me that officer did not want to, no officer does) everybody is in this I hate the police state but when somebody personally needs one they are ok. It pisses me off. What the hell was the police officer supposed to do, wait for the guy to stab somebody?

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

In regards to murder not really. In regards to everything else, yes. There is no surprise here that this charge came, there would be riots in the streets of Toronto if it did not. This way it diffuses the situation over time, the case will come, the officer will walk from the murder charge but probably get a police misconduct charge to help placate the masses and Toronto PD will get him to voluntarily resign.

Just did some research and only 93 officers have been charged since 96...that's like what, 5 officers a year? Doesn't seem like much considering the size of their police force and the amount of people they're policing.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Not just that, but also that an eye witness said that the officer told him that if he didn't comply, that he would kill him (or that he will die).

There are conflicting reports about what exactly the officer said. The courts will decide what the outcome of this will be.

[puckluck2]

3332 cases investigated in the history of siu and only in 82 of those cases charges were laid.

Edit: since 96

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Just did some research and only 93 officers have been charged since 96...that's like what, 5 officers a year? Doesn't seem like much considering the size of their police force and the amount of people they're policing.

Is that charges or is that charges where an officer has been found guilty?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

3332 cases investigated in the history of siu and only in 82 of those cases charges were laid.

I really don't believe that at all. I would believe 82 convictions.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Is that charges or is that charges where an officer has been found guilty?

Just charged.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I really don't believe that at all. I would believe 82 convictions.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speci...tigations_Unit

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by valo403

I am not even going to argue with armchair lawyers who obviously don't know crap about policing. I think I will walk from this thread, have at it.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

There are conflicting reports about what exactly the officer said. The courts will decide what the outcome of this will be.

Yes they will, and they will review all of the evidence, the vast majority of which you don't know.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speci...tigations_Unit

Oh, wikipedia. Well that seals it then. I am out, too many emotions tied to this thread.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I am not even going to argue with armchair lawyers who obviously don't know crap about policing. I think I will walk from this thread, have at it.

Yeah, it'd be tough for me to argue with you anyways seeing as you already know all of the evidence, which I assume is the result of some sort of supernatural power.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Just did some research and only 93 officers have been charged since 96...that's like what, 5 officers a year? Doesn't seem like much considering the size of their police force and the amount of people they're policing.

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special...tigations_Unit

Total number of investigations = 3,332

Total number or cases where charges have been laid = 82 (total number of officers charged is 93). Keep in mind that any time there is a death and an officer is present, it automatically invokes an SIU investigation.

That means out of the number of cases investigated, charges are only laid 2.5% of the time.

The data is incomplete though as the years from 1990 to 1996 are not included.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Oh, wikipedia. Well that seals it then. I am out, too many emotions tied to this thread.

Lol what a joke of a post. I guess your "I really don't believe that at all" was sufficient research, my bad.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Oh, wikipedia. Well that seals it then. I am out, too many emotions tied to this thread.

How about looking at the source the Wikipedia page is using before completely dismissing it because it contradicts you.

http://www.siu.on.ca/en/annual_reports.php

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

There are conflicting reports about what exactly the officer said. The courts will decide what the outcome of this will be.

So wait, then you don't know all the evidence?

Given the number of shots fired, and the delay in between, I don't see how it can't be considered excessive force. Whether it's enough for murder, who knows, but it should be manslaughter at least. I just wish every city had it's own SIU to monitor the police

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

. I just wish every city had it's own SIU to monitor the police

I thought they did?

[Zulu29]

I'm not surprised he's getting charged at all. The last six rounds he fired while the subject was prone is the issue for me. There were 10 or so officers on scene and as we know at least one had a taser. I'm not sure why they didn't try to use the taser after the first three rounds if the subject was in fact still combative in order to subdue him.

As far as the SIU charge against officer rate, that number seems about right. I read an article the other day where it said something like 98% of police-civilian interaction is peaceful or diffused verbally. So give or take 2% takes some other intervention (baton, pepper spray, firearm, punch) to resolve the situation.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I thought they did?

No not really, here in BC we just got the IIO (independent investigations office) in Ontario they have the SIU and in Alberta they have ASIRT. As far as I know those are the only police oversight agencies in the country right now, although I believe Nee Brunswick is creating their own as well.

Other than that, departments will usually refer the matter to another police force or oversight agency. I know the RCMP in the Yukon typically uses ASIRT for their police investigations.

[FlamesAddiction]

I would love to know how the SIU investigations vs. charge rate vs. conviction rate compares to that of civilians for police investigations. I would be willing to bet that the SIU gives the police more of the benefit of the doubt and express less open bias than the police give ordinary civilians when the tables are turned.